Circles, finding people, and creating groups

Oh, my apologies for being unclear. Character creation is well past done. This stealing prophecy from the gods thing, happened in play.

The actual core belief that developed from that is “There is yet enough fire in the hearts of men to steer a course over dark seas”. This signifies my characters devotion to defying fate, and to stop the dark future from coming to pass. The follow-up statement “I must rally those who would defy the tyranous stars” is intended to be a short-term goal on the long road to achieving the actual core belief.

Exactly what I meant when I said you don’t want to create a group, you want to have a group which you have previously created. If you’re not interested in actually spending game time recruiting a group of individuals, writing a belief about “gathering a group of bold and capable individuals, who will fight alongside me to prevent this grim future vision from coming to pass” is a strange way to begin.

I don’t want this to be a Suicide-Squad thing, where we give everyone a cool backstory and highlight how cool everyone is, and then we wait and pray that the time-investment pays off later.

Who’s talking about that? We don’t care about these NPCs, except to the extent that you do as a player. That’s all their good for. Showcasing the choices you are forced to make in play.

To do this, I’ll visit people who fit the bill, and tell them of the grim future that lies in wait. I’m talking knights, I’m talking rangers, guildsmen, and of course, who are more known to stand in bold defiance of the insurmountable, than adventurers and local heroes. I’ll visit these people, present myself as a sorceress(as you know, we’re somewhat rare in this world), and tell them that I have foreseen great calamity, and I want them to join me in fighting back. And so we shall form a fellowship against fate.

And the GM should be putting complications in your way to challenge your Beliefs and find out what your character is willing to do to fulfill them. Fail while Circling up a Knight and your enemies know you’re whereabouts. The guildsmen don’t trust you and think your part of the Burgher’s plan to charge them with Blaspheming against the holy prophets. An apostate priest offers you the mystical aid of an ancient god of pestilence, but first you have to be bound to him in a blood ritual. Or first, you have to sacrifice an innocent. Who knows? Something. Anything. Anything but, this trite “we have a chat and the party is formed.”

I’d rather have it be a fellowship of the ring thing, where everyone is brought together, there’s a bit of talking, not alot, but just enough, and then we can start caring about the characters later, as they start doing stuff.

Oh, the Fellowship of the ring, where Frodo gets the quest from a Wizard he’s known all of his life and sets off with the son of the Family’s faithful servant who he’s known all of his life, is joined by a couple of distant relatives from another part of the shire who he’s known most of his life, travels to another town where he’s met by a guide sent by the first Wizard dude, fights spectral riders and is almost killed, travels through a dark wood to an elven kingdom where they meet with a council of minor deities and picks up an Elf Lordling a Dwarf Prince and the son of the Steward of a fabled empire. I’m not sure how that qualifies as coming together with little talking.

This is why I’m asking you fine fellows what’s the best way of handling the forging of such a group on a more abstract level. Not so I can avoid complication, but so we can cut to the chase in the game. Make sense?

The game is about complications in pursuit of your Beliefs. That is the chase in the game. There is no other chase.

And failure?

I’d rather have it be a fellowship of the ring thing, where everyone is brought together, there’s a bit of talking, not alot, but just enough, and then we can start caring about the characters later, as they start doing stuff.

Just going by thw movies it takes them a whole dvd disk which is about an hour and a half to actually get to the Fellowship part. So no

And the GM should be putting complications in your way to challenge your Beliefs and find out what your character is willing to do to fulfill them. Fail while Circling up a Knight and your enemies know you’re whereabouts. The guildsmen don’t trust you and think your part of the Burgher’s plan to charge them with Blaspheming against the holy prophets. An apostate priest offers you the mystical aid of an ancient god of pestilence, but first you have to be bound to him in a blood ritual. Or first, you have to sacrifice an innocent. Who knows?

This is totally what I expect to happen when I fail the roll to gather such a group. I don’t expect the group to be formed without trouble, unless I succeed and get my intent. Heck I may have to maneuver to even be able to make the roll in the first place, and I’m okay with that. All I want to know is how to (assuming successful rolls) resolve the creation of such a group in as few rolls as possible, and luckily, I think I’ve gotten alot of great answers in this thread that tells me just that.

Sidenote about the fellowship: I guess you can choose to see the forming of the fellowship as an extremely long and involved affair. I don’t. In the great game of BW that is The Lord of the Rings, I don’t believe that anyone even had a belief about the fellowship until after it was formed. I don’t imagine a player suggested its formation early and then all the book was the harsh journey leading up to that. The belief on the line is destroying the ring. In my opinion, the forming of the fellowship didn’t enter anyone’s mind before the party arrived at Rivendell. Heck, it may even be a failure consequence:
Gandalf: “I want the elf-lord of Imladris to help us on this journey” fails roll
GM: “Bad news, he offers you refuge, but little in the way of active help. Worse yet, now that The Ring is here he will convene a council of the free peoples of Middle-earth to decide what is to be done with it”
Ganddalf: “What? No! It must be destroyed, Aragorn believes so too”
GM: “Yeah well, you’re gonna have to convince the envoys of that”

But I digress.

So on the topic of creating the group, the suggestions have been to use the rules for making new affiliations. To circles up a leader of a group and convince him. To make wises tests to establish the people in the fiction, and then go and attempt talk to them about forming a group. Thanks for the help! It’s awesome that the game allows both for the nitty gritty, and for larger acts in a few abstracted rolls.

Related reading: https://www.burningwheel.com/forum/showthread.php?9963-BW-THAC0-Buys-a-City-Raises-an-Army

Oh that is SO COOL! And it’s exactly what I’m talking about! Thanks, that’s a good read.

What about failure? This thread is about a player trying to determine various tasks that will match his character’s intent. I leave it to the GM at his table to come up with failure consequences.

I guess I’m just reacting to the implication in the OP that we can know ahead of time that forming a group is just a preamble before we get to the real adventure. One failed roll could send the situation in countless directions. Approaching the roll like it’s just something that needs to be gotten through, rather than a key part of the character’s fulfillment of their belief, limits the GM’s options quite a bit.

For example, the boat building scenario proposed above. Sure, if one has the materials, time, labor and skills, building a boat might be one roll. But, if you’ve written a Belief about proving yourself worthy of you shipwright father’s legacy by seeing his greatest design made real, it’s not going to be over in one roll. Writing a Belief tells the GM where to focus their adversity.

Just to make my meaning clear. It is not that I believe we can know this. Rather it is that I word my intent as though I could. My intent is not to TRY to form the group, my intent is to form the group. Fail and we get to see what trouble my character shall have to face in this pursuit, and whether she will continue to fight for what she believes, or if she will crumble. Succeed and I would see the group formed, as per my intent, acknowledging that different complications might arise in the future.

And I completely agree with your example of the boatmaker. In this case, as it applies to me, however, the formation of this group is not building the boat, defeating destiny is. Forming the group is attempting to acquire sails for the boat. It might provide complication, but it is not the end-goal. Rather it is a rung on a ladder, towards the end-goal.

Fair enough. I’m unusually curmudgeonly this week. I think the link Stormy posted from their game is s good way to think about forming a band of thugs through Circles and Resources. Verrain shows how you might identify existing allies or use Orate and Conspicuous to attract followers to your cause from the general populace.