You wanna run Range & Cover simultaneously with Fight? Doesn’t work, due to time dilation problems.
I think I’ve reached an impasse on this, and if I keep it up, I’ll only be bitching. Luke has already verified (I think) that I correctly understand the Fight mechanics now. I’m a-gonna shutup for the time being until I have something interesting for Sparks (if ever).
Presumably, the archer made a test to get in that tree. Now, once he’s had his shot, the Orc gets to make that same test. He gets to rush the tree.
And no archer is sniping into a melee from a tree 100 yards away. If you keep your examples reasonable, I’m sure you’ll find the rules reasonable.
Helping dice handle this situation fine for me.
On the archer in tree scenario: I’m assuming that if the Orc is climbing a tree while engaged in a Fight! exchange, he’s going to have spend a not trivial amount of physical actions in climbing, considering just standing up takes two actions.
Helping dice work by my standards as well. I’m just pointing out that in combat there is a reason to stand in the way of an ally - in smaller skirmishes a two handed spear behind a shield and short weapon is really quite effective, and that the argument “it doesn’t make sense that people would interpose themselves, because you defend people by killing the enemy” is an oversimplification.
Gah, draggin’ me back, draggin’ me back…
The orc gets to rush and climb the tree with his Engage test, or does he have to script a physical action during the exchange to climb the tree? It is my understanding that the Engage test acts as the physical movement to engage, and that once engaged, both combatants are within range for both of their weapons. Am I correct?
OK, if the GM calls it as such (which is operating outside of the rules, I believe). But the Orc still has advantage once the ranged weapon is fired. Even if the archer switches weapons to a throwing knife or something afterward. Even though the orc is still not yet up the tree, and has no ranged weapon of his own. This is how I understand the rules to work.
If the orc loses Engage test, he’s at a +5 Ob. What does this mean in the fiction? How is that penalty represented?
If the player specifically made a test to get into an advantageous position, doesn’t it follow suit that the opponent should have to do the same?
Why is it outside of the rules to use the Physical Action on page 447 in this case?
Yeah, if archer looses his arrow and fails to kill the Orc, the Orc gains the advantage. But he still has to climb the tree: which requires physical actions and a test. If he gets up into the tree, then the archer is fucked. Someone told me once never to climb a tree during a (paintball) fight. Seems like sage advice.
I’d make the case that an Archer behind a shield wall up in a tree isn’t in Fight. Fight is the wrong system to use to model what’s happening there. A series of bloody versus with the Archer as helping dice, maybe.
Still, I wonder what the obstacle penalty for aiming and firing a bow out of a tree would be. It certainly seems awkward to me.
My assumption was that the archer was firing into a melee, so he had to be part of the engagement, otherwise I agree that it’s probably a versus or R&C.
Ah, thanks, I was misunderstanding the rules there. Good. I assume this is also true if the ranged combatant didn’t actually have to make a test, if the obstacle between him and the Orc is a natural byproduct of the game fiction?
I’m still a little perplexed that the Orc gains advantage when he shouldn’t, but so long as he still has to make a test to get past the barrier the ranged combatant put between them (in this case, a tree, although it could just as easily be a castle wall, a trench, a barricade, an ally, etc.), it’s all good.
Edit: actually, I guess the advantage system does make sense here, if you use it properly. Before the archer looses his arrow, the Orc has a +5 Ob penalty to rush the tree because it’s freaking hard to rush someone with a ranged weapon. Once the arrow is loosed, no such disadvantage. Would you say the Orc has advantage for the test to overcome the obstacle (tree, castle wall, barricade, etc.), or only once he is within melee range of the ranged combatant?
My next game session is this Saturday, and the PCs are walking straight into a dispute between two warring noble houses. I expect we will actually see a bit of these strategies come into play. So thank you, all, for your feedback.
I believe when the archer cedes advantage he loses the advantage immediately. So, the archer deals with any Ob penalty even while the Orc is climbing.
The core conceit of the new Fight system is that the characters are doing their best at all times. So after that arrow flies, the Orc rushes – even if we don’t describe it.
Thanks. This makes sense.
Just dropping in to say that this has been utterly fascinating to read through, and I think it does a great job of shedding light on the intent of the Fight system. (It really is awesome, getting official feedback so readily on the forum.) It’s very interesting to contrast the Fight mindset with the standard mindset that has been crystallized, piece by piece, in “standard” RPGs. It’s almost like a “what-if” of D&D’s fight positioning, but not evolved along wargaming lines.