Different Orders of Might in a Group

So, there are currently four ways to increase order of might, as Thor points out here: one spell (Destiny of Heroes), one prayer (Evocation of the Lords of Battle), one potion (Giant’s Blood) and a mount with a higher Might than your own.

Both the prayer and the potion are described as affecting only one person in the fiction (the cleric getting his mace blessed, the guy drinking the potion), but the increased might extends to the whole group mechanically, presumably to make the handling easier in conflicts.

  1. So, the principle seems to be that the guy with the highest mights sets the might of the whole group. I assume the same goes for mounts. Is that correct? If one character is mounted, does the whole group count as having a higher might?

  2. Does the same hold for mixed groups of monsters? For example, if a bunch of goblins is led by an orc, should the whole group be counted as having might 3? (I thought there was something in the rules, but I can’t seem to find it again.)

  3. If this is the case, the +1s bonus per order of might in conflicts is always the same, no matter if any given character faces the orc or a goblin. That is, no need to compare the might of individual combatants, just use the established might of the two groups. Correct?

P.S. One thing I just realized: the boss monster rule makes sure the big guy is always the last to go, elegantly saving you the trouble of tracking and adjusting the might for losses in mixed groups, like you have to do for kobolds and their 5+ swarm rule. That sure makes things easier! And more interesting for the players.

I had thought that you measure capabilities (whether you can kill, drive-off, etc.) by the highest might participant but that you hand out +s for whatever monster is currently acting, but that may have been a bad assumption.

Been waiting essentially since I got the PDF to see these ones answered. Glad someone finally asked. Guess I was too lazy.

Good questions!

Five or more kobolds count as Order of Might 2 rather than 1. If sheer numbers increase a group’s Might, then surely actual increases in Might must too. I mean, a goblin and three kobolds: this group has to have Might 2. And if you’re riding a black dragon, well then the group has Might 6; I mean having a dragon on your side must be rather distracting, tactically and strategically, even if you’re not attacking the dragon directly.

So, I vote Yes to all three of your questions.

Just collecting some infos:

  1. Rider skill (p. 32): “Being mounted increases your size on the Order of Might to that of your beast.”
  2. Destiny of Heroes spell (p. 45): “Increase your team’s rank on the Order of Might by one for one conflict.”
  3. Thread of Friendship (p. 46): “The caster suffers a -1s penalty for each rank by which the target’s Might exceeds that of the caster.”
  4. The Order of Might (p. 74): “Each creature you encounter is listed on scale called the Order of Might. Their rank relative to yours imposes a variety of effects.”
  5. The Greater the Order, the More You Hurt (p.75): “In addition to determining what you can and can’t kill, your Might grants a substantial bonus: +1s per level of order greater than your opponent for all successful or tied actions in kill, capture, and drive off conflicts.”
  6. Kobolds (p. 156): “A group of five or more kobolds counts as Order of Might 2 rather than 1.”
  7. Boss monsters: (p. 151): “When you’re using a mixed group of monsters in a conflict, designate one as the boss monster. On its action, roll its Nature and have the minions help. On the minion actions, roll their Nature and have the boss and other minions help.”

I read that 1.-5. suggest that each opponent has its own Might and that it can change for just one person. If a Might 4 creature gets help from Might 3 creatures they can accomplish things that are only possible for Might 4 creatures. So your Dragon Rider might kill Giants with your help, even if you can’t kill them.

yep, that’s pretty much how I read it too.

For what it’s worth, I suspect Jovialbard’s approach is right and we have to distinguish between a team’s effective might and the might of the individual characters in that team. Compare the description of the potion of Giant’s Blood: “Effect: Increase your team’s effective Order of Might by 1 for drive off, kill or capture conflicts for one conflict” (p. 148). The might of the drinker does not seem to increase.

A team’s might would then determine what you can kill and which conflicts are possible, and an individuals might determines who gets the +1s for any pair of actions in a conflict. The might of the highest individual would probably set the team’s might (further increased by magic etc.).

It’s just that things like the description of the Evocation of the Lords of Battle throw me off: “[T]he cleric can increase his Order of Might so as to be able to slay what he could not. The Order of Might increase counts for the whole team” (p. 54). Does that mean everybody on the team gets the +1s? Or is it just the cleric, whose might then sets the team’s effective might? Or no +1s for anybody, just a higher team might?

Hmm, interesting questions Kai…

The potion of Giant’s Blood doesn’t say the might bonus exclusively applies to the type of outcome you can get, so I would assume that what it is saying is tht as long as you are engaged in one of those conflicts your Might is +1, and +1 in all ways including extra successes (or lowering your enemy’s extra successes if you were fighting something stronger than you).

The cleric spell is more ambiguous, though. It says the increase in might “counts” for the whole team, it doesn’t say that it “applies” to the whole team. I’d be comfortable with either the interpretation that it does boost everyone’s might or the interpretation that the spell description is just pointing out that the whole team is benefited when one person’s might is improved, in that they now have more options for conflicts. I can’t say for certain which interpretation is correct.

Here’s another puzzle. Suppose you do have a dragon rider on your team, and are trying to kill another dragon. Now suppose your dragon rider goes down. If you win the fight while he’s down can you kill the dragon? In a previous thread luke suggested that you do have to track changes in Kobold Might as their numbers dwindle, so wouldn’t your “team might” also lower if you loose the guy with the high might? If so, better pull that dragon rider back into the fight before you finish things, or the best you’ll manage is to drive the other dragon off only to face him another day.

If individual might and effective team might are different, and the latter depends on the former, then the kobold principle (as pointed out by Luke, I think) ought to apply to the dragon rider example as well, yes. Note that this would only have to be tracked for player parties, since an NPC dragon rider would surely be the boss in any group the characters might encounter.

“The Order of Might increase counts for the whole team” is not an ambiguous statement. Might increase effects count for the team.

All might increases or just the use of that spell specifically? Does drinking a potion of giant’s blood give +1 might and therefore and extra +1s to everyone in the party? Does having a dragon on your side mean that your personal might is treated as 6 for the remainder of the fight? I’m confused now…

I think Luke just talked about that one prayer…

That’s possible, it was just such an absolute sentence, I’m not sure if the context was implied… sorry if I’m being too literal it’s just hard to tell sometimes when someone is making a general statement or a specific one.

So, if the clecric invokes the Lords of Battle and downs the potion of Giant’s Blood, and then someone casts Destiny of Heroes, the entire party, every single member of it, is might 6 and can go punch a dragon in the face, without the dragon getting a single +1s. Which sounds pretty good to me.

Did I get this right so far?