We had this situation arise yesterday. We were playing Trouble in Hochen, and the characters had just encountered the Bear. They had failed an orienteering test to find their way back to their camp in the woods, and stumbled across the bear instead.
They wound up in Fight! and the Knight scripted a Counterstrike to the bear’s Lock. Looking this one up in the tables really confused me. We figured out the bear’s lock obstacle would be the knight’s defensive roll on his counterstrike, but didn’t understand the counterstrike table where it says “Vs. Pow.” We figured out eventually that this seemed to simply restate the fact that the defense from counterstrike is against the bear’s power for the lock test, and after re-reading we figured out that the “strike” portion is treated exactly as a strike. So we used ob1 for the strike, and the bear rolled miserably with +3 OB for wounds and positioning disadvantage.
Did we do this right? Power vs. CS Def dice and Strike vs. 1 ob with offensive CS dice?
We also had a contradiction between the stats on the bear and the BWG weapon length rules. BWG sheets state that claws/jaws are a “shortest” weapon where the bear in Trouble in Hochen is listed as bite/claw being “short” weapons. Is the bear outdated or is he supposed to be longer reach than normal claws/jaws?
Yes, you got it. The bear rolls its Power vs. the dice assigned to the defensive portion of the Counterstrike. The offensive portion of the counterstrike is Ob 1 as if rolling an unopposed Strike. In situations like this where you have what is essentially a Strike going off against no action, check the Against No Action table on page 441.
We also had a contradiction between the stats on the bear and the BWG weapon length rules. BWG sheets state that claws/jaws are a “shortest” weapon where the bear in Trouble in Hochen is listed as bite/claw being “short” weapons. Is the bear outdated or is he supposed to be longer reach than normal claws/jaws?
The bear has the Massive Stature trait, which increases the reach of all its weapons by one step. My guess is that the BWR version adjusted the weapon length to account for the trait and the BWG version changed it back to the actual length of those weapons with the thought that GMs would apply the effect of the Massive Stature trait. It is an unfortunate and confusing presentation issue. In effect, though, the bear’s bite and claws are Short weapons.
I think I’m confused - a Lock is a vs. Power Test is it not?
So if you script a Counterstrike and you lose the Power test natural defenses? What if my Defensive dice in Counterstrike are worse than my Power stat? Scripting a Counterstrike in that instance is actually punished.
There are no Natural Defenses in BWG my friend. The person who scripted Lock is testing Power. The person who scripted Counterstrike gets to oppose with the dice he allocates to defense. Period.
BWG has yet to hit the Swedish market so I only have the sheets for Fight! to look at but I assume there’s an error there. If you proceed from Lock to Counterstrike it does indeed say “Pow vs Def from Skill” but if you proceed from Counterstrike to Lock it says “Def from Skill vs Agi”. I see no mention of Agility in your explanation (which I find very clear in itself) so I assume it’s supposed to say the same as the other one?
And if that’s so, is there a reason why you only see what Counterstrike defends with on the sheet? It seems like when you start with Counterstrike as “your skill” that it could rather list what the attack portion does since you see the defense portion when you put the opposing action as “your skill”?
Boxing is better then Power in Versus tests. Forget Avoid. I’m going to start Throwing anyone foolish enough to Charge. It took me way too long to realise this.
I think Power would be beter then Boxing against an opponet with No Action. In that case, you’re rolling against an Ob1 and not V. Skill. So you wouldn’t be at the double Ob Skill v. Stat disadvantage.
Speaking of Locks and Throws, the table on page 448 lists the obstacle for Lock against Throw Person as a standard test against 1/2 Power; however, the table on page 450 lists the interaction between Throw Person and Lock as a Vs. Power test. So, is the interaction a standard test or a Vs. test? Or am I misunderstanding something.
That’s interesting, Taelor. The ‘Throw’ line in the book on p. 450 looks off compared to the matrix. Check the actions ‘Block’, ‘Counterstrike’ and ‘Lock’. I’m assuming the matrix is correct.
Actually, I just proofread them and I found 12 differences in all. Seems plausible that the matrix is correct.
It was a pretty even fight.