More thoughts on handling big battles

Yeah, I’d say so.

Hmm, if the first test is inconclusive, are there extra things you could roll for instead of engaging in another pitched battle? (Like how BV works.)

I’m thinking Logistics to outlast your enemy with supplies?
Maybe Circles for reinforcements?

Army has a Steadfastness, calculated just like Health in determining PTGS based on the average of the General’s Strategy + Logistics with a +1 for every one of the following skills the General has: Command, Tactics, Strategy Games and Appropriate Wises. Steadfastness is the army’s morale and physical condition.

General’s Intent Obstacles
Hold Firm until Reinforcements Arrive/Defend/Delay Enemy Ob1
Destroy Enemy Ob2
Sack Enemy’s Castle/City Ob3

Order of Operations
1)Calculate stats for army (Steadfastness, Steel, numbers, troop types, etc)
2) Consult maps, draw terrain and relevant fortifications
3) Secretly Divvy up Strategy + FoRK’s + Helping Dice into Attack and Defend
4) Check Intent, obs, modifiers
5) Roll Dice, calculate damage, roll Steel if necessary
6) DoF for named NPC’s

Calculate Army’s Steel. It is the General’s Command skill +1 for each question that is YES below:

If the army is mostly comprised of Bandit, Soldier, Squire or Knight LP’s
Has the army been blooded?
Has the army been given a reason to righteously hate the enemy?
Does the army have a dragon, Maester, Red Priest or Lord with a named Valyrian Steel weapon?
Is the army led by a general with a Strategy of 4+?
Is the army led by a general with a Logistics of 4+?
Is the army defending its home?

When determining hesitation, use 10 - Army’s Steadfastness

Stock Tweaks
Dwarven armies generate Steel with Strategy + Greed if they are fighting to take resources from someone or return something stolen from them.

Swordsingers would operate like mini-dragons, offering exploding dice as helping dice to the conflict.

I’m thinking about the spider army from our Giant Spiders Lay Siege to the Forgotten Realms game. Spiders ignore fortifications and get a +3D for their alien tactics until the enemy general makes an ob4 Strategy test to figure out how to fight the giant arachnid hordes.

From what I’m seeing, players will regularly roll 7-10D in these conflicts, divided into defense and attack pools. One extra (open gray) die is nice, but it’s not really game-turning.

If my opponent and I both have Strategy 4 and I come with an equal number of troops against Harren in his hall, the dice pools will be:

Strategy 4D
Reputation 1D
Dragon 1D
Total: 6D (one die is gray and open)

Strategy 4D
Fortress 4D
Home Field 2D
Total: 10D

Harren’s going to send me yelping all the way home, dragon be damned.

BTW, it’s going to be really crazy hard to seize a castle or a fortress by assault. The way it’s written now you’ll never have anywhere near as many dice as the guy in the castle. Maybe that’s what you’re going for, and that’s cool… many link tests will be necessary and you’ll have to nail the link tests.

What about modifiers for disease, bad morale, lack of food, and exhaustion?

You are dead on. I will likely have different die amounts for different size dragons.

1D Just begin enough to fly around and wreak havoc but not big enough to ride.

3D Big enough to hold a rider, both rider and dragon are trained (if not, just 2D)

5D Can swallow an entire wagon whole and when it takes flight, villages are in its shadow.

They make a big deal of how big some of the dragons were. Good stuff thanks.

Disease, morale and the rest will be taken in as wounds taken to the army’s Steadfastness due to failed rolls to keep the army together. I will post more about that later.


Sounds like an argument for “dragons negate fortification dice.” :wink:

Ya know what, I like that way, way better than my solution.

Here’s what I’m thinking for Dragons:

1D + another 1D for a yes to the following questions:

[li]Are villages swallowed in its shadow when it takes flight?
[/li][li]Are the rider and dragon trained for battle?

Having a dragon in your army means that the maximum dice you can get for Fortifications is +1D.

If no 6’s are rolled and a 1 is also rolled, the dragon or the rider were wounded in combat and will not be able to participate in the next battle.

I feel like an Orc leader can substitute Hatred for… something? But at the expense of hurting his own army in some way, on top of the natural casualties they take from the versus rolls.

And if sword-singers are worth something, battle trolls gotta be, too.

Originally posted by Judd:

  1. For me, this is depending on gathering your troops, calling your bannermen, which would be a circles test. The numbers would be dependent on the setting.

I don’t know. I think army size should include some combo of Resources and Circles. Think of the respect a man with a B10 Resources is going to get in a room full of vassals and allies compared to man with a B5. This would influence whether vassals arrive with a full contingent or whether possible allies get on board. If they decide not to, that B10 Resources could be turned against them some day.

Also, don’t forget that Property purchases in chargen includes the appropriate vassals. If I spend 105 rps for a palace, the biggest property purchase available, I’m assuming that this assumes a kingdom full of vassals (unless I’m interpreting the Property rules wrong).

I could see that, a circles roll to get your vassals to you, a possible DoW if they need convincing and then a Resources check to get the support into place.

Resources also factors into your ability to hire mercenaries and equip and supply your troops. (Cross-posted with Judd.)

Exactly. I don’t see why one Resources roll couldn’t be used for a combination of paying knights & soldiers, hiring mercs, buying allies, and equipping your forces. Circles should figure in of course, I just like the idea of Resources as a reflection of a prince’s power on the international stage.

Think of the English kings: they paid the Count of Flanders 500 pounds a year as a money-fief to be on retainer with a 1000 knights. Then when king John tried to reclaim his lost fiefs in France he spent lavishly recruiting allies from German princes in Lotharingia and the Low Countries. If you think about it, for the period BW covers (13 century), the whole feudal host thing is kind of an anachronism. Lords and knights were still the preeminent social force in warfare, but they were paid beyond the paltry financial contribution that their knight service contributed.

I started a google doc just to keep things straight for myself.

I changed a few little things in the above google doc that could have a big impact.

I changed the wording so that instead of general it says, war council. This way, the players can have Strategy or Logistics among a few characters or even circle up a character with the skill. It would be tough to have both of them on any one character; it is possible but tough.

I’ll give these mechanics a roll with Witt in our Giant Spiders vs. the Realms game and will likely give it a go at Burning Con.

The use of Steadfastness as health is rather clever. Could perhaps weapon damage somehow be determined by troops available, or rather the troops risked, used, for the main push. With such a mechanic in place a Dragon would be a dangerous weapon with high damage. Other weapons may be: Irregulars, Bandits, Heavy Infantry, Knights, or Archers.



I’m tinkering with the damage stuff now.

My buddy, Witt, took what I had and arranged it in a new google doc with relevant questions and things to think about and solid comments. I’ll have something updated in a bit.

I have also been playing with it, reformatting to make the flow of the doc clearer.

Some of te advantage dice should actually make the power (called it Devastation, but Force might be better) increase rather than just grant bonus dice.

I also rewrote some of the advantage dice sections for characters. Indicating that for example, you can only have one speech, and only one of some of the other things.

I also would note in the write up that some of the linked actions require a roll, or a scene, or a fight. And that some can cause a penalty if flubbed badly or in a very memorable way.

Also dont mean to presume, We are starting up a new game, and I find playing with the rules helps me remember and learn the system again. I really like what you have done, an will keep watching. Also will send you what I have I case anything sticks.

I’ve got a really pretty doc that Witt was kind of enough to make corrections on and lay out more like a game doc and less like Judd’s frantic notes.

Thanks to Witt, it is coming along, slowly but surely.

They look good so far. If I can use them in a campaign, I plan on it.

I’m not sure it is ready yet but if you give it a go, let me know how it works for ya and what you need.