First let me say that I have been looking through the first 10 pages yielded by the search engine and I could not find answers. I will use this thread to post some questions I have regarding the Range & Cover sub system.
I start with a simple one:
Pg 409 -> Spending Maneuver Successes on Actions -> Taking a shot: You can spend one success per member of your team to give the character that oportunity to shot. You may only shot once per volley.
Question: Does this limitation of one shot per volley include the Free shots (pg 416)? or you may take a shot as an action (by spending a maneuver success die) and a free shot (resulting for example because of the opponent charging towards you), for a total maximum of two shots per volley?
Specifically, a character is only ever allowed to spend one success on shooting. If you are granted a free shot due to an action interaction, you get to do that as well.
I have a second set of questions regarding free shoots and ties.
Pg 408->Tying for Maneuver- Who Shoots? -> “When you tie, each player on each team may shoot (or cast a spell) at his opponent or take cover instead. If he opts to shoot, he may fire at his current rank obstacle. If he takes cover, he raises his opponent’s obstacle to shoot him by one. A player Holding may also take his free shot. Opponents of Charging or Retreating players may also take their free shots in addition to the tied shot.”
Does this mean that if one of the maneuvers involved in the tie is a Charge, each player from each team shoots twice?
Charge maneuver: It seems that it may happen often (specially if the team which opposes the charge is large in number) that you get more free shots by tying than by winning the test. I guess it is intended, but it is kind of weird.
Hold: Is it correct how I understand Hold? Every member of the Holding team gets one Free shot no matter the outcome of the maneuver test?
3.1) If the maneuvers involved in a tie are Hold vs Charge. Does it mean that each member of the Holding team shoots three times and each member of the Charging team twice?
Thanks in advance!
Yepes
P.S: I have yet one more question, but I will post it later in order not to overwhelm.
Check which printing of the book you have. I have the 3rd printing from 2013. If you have an earlier printing, you may want to check the errate in the wiki
I have BWG 1st printing, and checking the errata on the wiki I see no mention of this. Is the text you underlined a direct quote from your copy of BWG?
“Tying for Maneuver-Who Shoots?
Each player on each team may shoot (or cast a spell) at his opponent, or take cover instead.” BWG pg408.
These are not free shots. They substitute for spending successes.
“If the charge is tied, everyone on both teams gets to shoot.” BWG pg413
There’s no mention of free shots for a tied charge. I believe Luke is restating the quote from pg408 to emphasize the fact that when you charge your opponent will get to shoot at you at least once, whatever the outcome.
Volleys in BW do not take place over a set amount of time, rather they take as long as is required to discover if you get your intent or not. If you win with a maintain against a charge, the volley may only last 30 seconds as your opponents attempt to get closer and you fire a few shots to discourage them. A tied maintain against a charge could last several minutes, as both sides rain missiles down on each other, in an attempt to force their will. It’s all about the tying the mechanics to the fiction.
Also see below about Free Shots.
No. You always shoot, even if you lose. You only get a free shot if you win the test. Free Shots are a specific thing mentioned on BWG pg416.
Normal shots don’t stack. Free shots don’t stack. If you tie with a charge, both sides shoot. If you tie with a hold, both sides shoot. Neither side gets Free Shots, as far as I can see from reading the text. Therefore both sides get one shot per member.
There are some good answers in this thread, but also confusion.
How Many Shots Can a Character Take?
“You may only shoot once per volley.” – BWG, Taking a Shot, page 409.
No matter how many successes, free shots or other opportunities you are given, any individual character may only shoot or cast once per volley. You may spend additional successes on things like aiming or taking a position.
Tying for Maneuver Questions
No. See above.
Yes, that’s possible. But winning the Maneuver grants you successes that may be spent on aiming. Given the way the Die of Fate works, adding an extra die or two to an attempt to hit with a missile makes that missile potentially much more deadly.
Not quite. The team that Holds gets ONE Free shot. Free Shots don’t let everyone on that team shoot for free. They let one character shoot for free. Other characters need to spend Maneuver successes to shoot. Also note that you cannot cast a spell with a Free Shot.
3.1. No. See the answer to How Many Shots Can a Character Take.
James, the quoted text is in the third printing. It means that if you are Holding, and there is a tie, you have the option to both Take Cover AND Shoot. It does not grant the ability to shoot twice. The same is true of opponents of Charging and Retreating characters in tied situations. The text there is not as clear as it could be, but that’s the gist.
So Charge, Retreat and Hold always grant a single free shot each? Cool.
So the maximum Free Shots a team could accrue is 2, for Holding against a Charge or retreat?
And in a tie these can only be spent to allow 2 men to shoot from behind +1 cover?
Sorcerers are slightly more vulnerable than archers during tied Holds, Charges and Retreats?
Not necessarily. You could be Holding and facing three different teams who are Charging or Retreating. That would be four Free Shots, assuming you have four people capable of using them on your team (of course, with the Free Shots generated by the opposing teams, you’d fire one shot at each team. You couldn’t take all those free shots and focus fire on a single team).
And in a tie these can only be spent to allow 2 men to shoot from behind +1 cover?
Not quite. If there’s a tie and 2 Free Shots, then two of the people on your team could fire with +1 cover. The rest would also get to fire or drop into cover (because of the tie).
Sorcerers are slightly more vulnerable than archers during tied Holds, Charges and Retreats?
Again, not quite. Sorcerers cannot use Free Shots to cast. Shot opportunities from ties are not Free Shots. You only get Free Shots when you Hold or your opponent Charges or Retreats. In the event of a tie, Sorcerers still get to cast.
Apart from the multiple teams, that’s what I was getting at.
The everybody-shoots-in-a-tie thing is explicit.
Free-shots are not Tied shots.
Wizards don’t get to fire from cover like their buddies do, when tied and Holding, or receiving a Charge or Retreat. They waste their free shot and cast in the open.
I was specially confused about the Hold maneuver and about the amount of shots that can be taken.
While I was aware of this:
“You may only shoot once per volley.” – BWG, Taking a Shot, page 409.
just on the page before there is this entry which confused me
“When you tie, each player on each team may shoot (or cast spell) at his opponent or take cover instead. He he opts to shoot, he may fire at his current range obstacle. If he takes cover he rises his opponent’s obstacle to shoot him by one. A player Holding may also take his free shot. Opponents of Charging or Retreating players may also take their free shots in addition to the tied shot.” ---- BWG, Tying for maneuver - Who shots, page 408
This last sentence seems to imply that you can shoot twice, contradicting the entry of page 409. If you tie on a Charge, as per description of the maneuver, everybody gets to shot once (according to page 409, these players cannot shot more this volley). But then, on this entry it is written that you can take also your tied shots in addition of the free ones…but if you can only shot once per volley this does not make too much sense, or I am missing something?
Edit: I am working in a new version of the R&C sheet for my players. I need to make it more easier for them, otherwise they will be overwhelmed by the rules. Therefore, following the format of the DoW sheet, I have included the maneuver description in the R&C sheet and set apart the scripting sheet. It is not nice yet, I will work on it. I hope you find it useful.
Yepesnopes, it means that if you are Holding, and there is a tie, you have the option to both Take Cover AND Shoot. It does not grant the ability to shoot twice. The same is true of opponents of Charging and Retreating characters in tied situations. The text there is not as clear as it could be, but that’s the gist.
Yep! Thanks Thor for taking the time to clarify this.
May be “Tie Action”, to talk about the possibility of shooting or taking cover when on a tie, would have been a better choice than “Tie Shot”.
I still have one last question regarding Range and Cover, I will post it later and then hopefully move on to the Fight chapter…
Well, here it goes my third (and hopefully last) volley of question regarding R&C.
It is again regarding tying maneuvers.
Pg. 408 Tying for Maneuvers - Who Moves: “If two groups both script the same action and roll a tie, then both sides get their maneuver intent.”
Player A has a great bow and is at Extreme range from Player B, who has a throwing weapon and is Out of range for his weapon regarding Player A. Both tie in a Close vs Close maneuver, both get their intent. Player A moves to Optimum range with his Great bow, consulting the table of pg 411, it means that player B is still Out of Range with his throwing weapon, but since Player B also gets his intent, he moves to Extreme range with his throwing weapon respect to player A. Then the final status is Player at optimum and Player B at extreme. Is that correct?
This is not really a question, is more that I don’t get the reasoning why in a tie both contenders get their intent only in the case of scripting the same action. Why, for example, if there is a tie between a Charge and Close, only the ones Charging get the intent. I understand though, that is not the duty of the designers of the game to discuss the reason behind each rule.
Don’t think of a Range & Cover as occurring in a featureless, white box. The side that picked Close is using their Speed to get closer, but they’re still using the terrain to protect themselves. They aren’t exposing themselves unnecessarily. The team that is charging is heading toward the other team completely heedless of the consequences.
Any individual character may only shoot or cast once per volley. Range & Cover is conducted in teams. You may take two free shots if there are two people who can shoot. If there is only one person on your team (or one person with a ranged weapon) then the second free shot is wasted.
