Sorcery and Advantage in Fight!

So I ran a mock Fight! last night with my sorcerer and ranger characters. It went pretty well, and the new system is very streamlined.

However, I had a few questions about Sorcery in Fight! that I couldn’t resolve in the book.

  1. If I vie for position with a weapon spell that I’m casting - let’s use White Fire for the sake of argument - and I win positioning, do I subsequently cede advantage to my opponent when the spell is completed and goes off?

  2. What if I cast two different spells of different lengths in the same exchange? Does it work like switching a weapon? And would the second spell be penalized for dropping to the “Hands” length after the first spell goes off?

  3. Page 456 under the “Narrow Confines” section says “Missiles cannot be used in these circumstances.” Does that apply to Sorcery? Doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense if it does, since Sorcery is generated with your hands.

  1. If I vie for position with a weapon spell that I’m casting - let’s use White Fire for the sake of argument - and I win positioning, do I subsequently cede advantage to my opponent when the spell is completed and goes off?

I don’t think anyone at the receiving end of White Fire has the advantage. :stuck_out_tongue: I don’t think you’d lose the advantage just because your spell fired off. We can assume you’re going to go straight in to casting another spell.

  1. What if I cast two different spells of different lengths in the same exchange? Does it work like switching a weapon? And would the second spell be penalized for dropping to the “Hands” length after the first spell goes off?

From my understanding, the advantage/disadvantage bonuses/penalties would change, but you aren’t actually changing weapons, so I wouldn’t say you’re ceding advantage.

  1. Page 456 under the “Narrow Confines” section says “Missiles cannot be used in these circumstances.” Does that apply to Sorcery? Doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense if it does, since Sorcery is generated with your hands.

I doubt it’d apply to sorcery, but that depends on the medium you’ve chosen for it. If it’s established that sorcerous spells are cast via grand hand gestures, then you should at least be getting a +1 Ob in that situation, but I don’t think you’d be restricted from casting.

  1. You drop your weapon so you cede advantage.
  2. You change weapons so you follow those rules.
  3. I don’t have the passage in front of me, so I’ll leave that up to your interpretation.

Huh, totally got that one wrong. My bad.

So I’m assuming that if you finish casting a spell, you drop to “Hands” if you positioned with the spell.

If I cast spells back-to-back, would I drop to “Hands” between the two spells, or automatically shift to the length of the new spell, at the disadvantage? Don’t have the weapon switching rules in front of me.

Wait, really? That seems… odd. This actually came up in a game I’m in, so I’m not just talking hypotheticals. Art Mages vs. Zombies; my mage has a sword in hand as well as her spells (kosher since I still have a hand free and can speak). I successfully gained advantage at the Engage step, taking the bonus for “weapon 2 or more lengths longer than my opponent” (Spell vs. Fists/Claws). Then I released my spell… and the zombie immediately closes the (reasonably wide) gap between us? Even though I’m holding a sword? That’s not how we played it, but if that were the case we certainly would have done things differently.

If so, could I have positioned with my sword but still released my spell, thereby not losing advantage when the spell goes off? Like if I had a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other?

Matt

You engaged with the spell weapon length. You cast the spell. You now want to use the sword. You have changed weapons and cede advantage, because the zombie got up in your grill while you were concentrating on the hand-waving and mystic incantation. You may have a sword in your other hand, but you sure as hell aren’t using it while you’re casting. It’s not about distance, so much as you are now on the back foot as you adjust your mind from the realms of the arcane to chopping a zombie’s bits off.

If you positioned with the sword, you would cede advantage when you switched to the spell to cast it. Only now, you would be casting with disadvantage.

I’m assuming that the disadvantage applied to spells is only intended to add to the casting Ob, not the tax Ob, right? That would make the most sense to me.

I like this “sorcerer cedes advantage” business. It really forces a mage to think about how vulnerable they are in a Fight!

I have to say, if I’m casting spells back to back that have the same weapon length, I think it’s a little weird to cede the advantage. Especially since the other dude is gonna get lots of free strikes against me while I’m incanting. This is still the case even if the spells were all 1-action (if I’ve got a fighter mage, that’s totally possible)?

Hmm, after re-reading the chapter, I think Alexander’s right. It makes spellcasting in Fight! virtually useless against our campaign’s zombies, since they’re not affected by wound penalties, but it is correct.

Because, zombies.

I need to invent a “shotguns” school of Art Magic, clearly.

You could go for an Ob 9 Art Magic test to give them the Eldritch Sink trait, that should do it.

I guess that would kill a zombie!

Time for some difficult tests…

Matt

since they’re not affected by wound penalties
That’s a bit extreme. I would think Dead to Pain, Unfeeling, and a high Mortal Wound tolerance would suffice. Maybe make a new trait that makes their Reflexes unaffected as well.

But immune to wound penalties? I mean, a Midi wound could be severed fingers or broken bones - that would reduce combat effectiveness simply due to physics. And Traumatic wounds include severed limbs - you’d better damn well believe a zombie would be affected by a missing limb.

I have to say, if I’m casting spells back to back that have the same weapon length, I think it’s a little weird to cede the advantage.
Is it weird that I cede advantage after firing a bow? Same principle, really.

Well, yes. If I’ve kept the advantage all through pulling an arrow out of my quiver, knocking the arrow, drawing back the bowstring, acquiring my target, and loosing and arrow… why would I lose advantage just because I’m doing all of that again?

Because you’re assuming a static target when that target is rushing you the whole time, ducking your shot and diving on top of you. All you have to do to get away is get another arrow out and win that next vy for position.

Well, Dead to Pain, Numb, and Tough as Nails put together makes it almost as though they don’t take wound penalties. A Midi will only reduce their dice pools by 1, they never need to make Steel tests for pain, and Supies and Lights do nothing. (Though 5 Lights will still take one down.)

Sorry this is off-topic. Luke’s explanation makes sense to me now. One side-effect I’m noticing here is that the bowman is not at such a huge disadvantage if the person rushing him has a long weapon, but if the melee combatant is using hands, they get a significant advantage to winning the Vie for Position at the end of the volley.

Matt