Unit Strengths in BE

Numbers, as mentioned add only color to the game and have therefore been kept purposely vague.

NOTE1: Perhaps this ought to be higher? 10x or even 20x?
Iron armor is unquestionably potent. How many generic ‘redshirts’ does a single "Iron armored ‘redshirt’ replace?

NOTE2: Perhaps just a small bonus?
A +1/2 Size bonus, neatly paying for the cost of Anvil Armour (for the majority of his troops) seems oddly fitting.

NOTE3: Horde armies and beyond
If for whatever the reason a player or NPC wants to amass 5000+ or more men in a single unit, the solutions are simple. Either pay for multiple lower level affiliations (and merge them in play) or upgrade already existing units. (again in play)

NOTE4: Squad Support Weaponry
Unfortunately the only thing this leaves very vague are squad support weapons. Numbers, quality, and capabilities. Suggestions? or just color.
(Note that the ‘Direct Fire’ Action lets you prioritize those soldiers armed with heavy weapons.)

>>Possible Size Trades

This in particular is a very cool idea, NEN. The more I think about it, the more numbers really AREN’T just color. The exact number of guys in a Horde may be abstracted, but in a fire team, they’re extremely valuable. You lose your Squad Support weapon guy, and it affects your team. If you have two Support guys, and you lose one, you still have a capability. I’m not super comfortable just saying “Hey, you know I’d have more than one Weapon guy, so I’ll take another shot opportunity.” Just as a f’rinstance.

I’ve gotta run now, but I really do want to work on this some more. Thanks for your ideas.

Chris

Thanks,

I think the main problem with the abstraction presented by the Firearms(!) rules in Burning Empires is that they always revolve around symmetrical forces. The various Disposition bonuses, as well as the “Direct Fire” rules do not mesh well with lopsided engagements. (or different division of forces)

While I agree that the Firefight rules should be presented in a colourful and indefinite manner. I believe that some additional sub-rules ought to be enforced in order to give a seemingly authentic feel for combat both personal and mass scale.

Solution
[ol]
[li]Either through the Size division (presented above) or through a system similar to the Techburner. Unit traits need to be quantified.
[/li][li]Combat rules remain similar. But some Actions (particularly “Direct Fire” and “Close Combat”) should be modified on three different levels.
[/li] - 2a. Personal (Squad combat and smaller) Where all ‘actors’ are represented.

  • 2b. Military Units (Platoon, Company, Battalion) Where only Leaders and specialists are represented
  • 2c. Massive Actions (Brigade, Army) Where only leaders are represented
    [li]Military Units quantified on the Anvil level as “Infantry”, “Cavalry”, “Artillery”, or “Airpower”
    [/li][/ol]

The larger the “unit” the more effective disposition loss can be caused.
The smaller the “unit” the more effective FIREPOWER can be applied on an personal level.Lethal
The smaller the “unit” the more unaccounted for specialist actions can be performed.

It bears noting that to a lesser or greater degree the current Firefight rules covers this on a basic abstract level. I’d like these advantages and traits to be presented with clearer tactical applications.

Current issues
[ul]
[li]It shouldn’t be possible to hide a sniper in a Horde.
[/li][li]It shouldn’t be possible to cause massive disposition losses by merely having two (special weapon armed) characters surrounded by thousands of useless redshirts (ex1-2)
[/li][li]‘Direct Fire’ should be more effective at causing disposition loss, rather than just possibly causing casualties.
[/li][/ul]

Army porn?! Count me in! As a Marine infantry officer and now historian for the federal government, I’ve never met a TO&E or line diagram I didn’t like. Below is my take, borrowing from pretty much everybody on this thread. Thanks!

HAMMER & ANVIL: Force Strengths in Burning Empires

  1. Affiliations

Affiliations represent how powerful, competent, and capable the force is, i.e. its starting Exponent.

1D: Ex 3
2D: Ex 4
3D: Ex 5

Rule of Thumb: In order to get something more, you have to give up a level of Exponent.

  1. Forces

Lifepaths give a character access to a force. The Anvil/Hammer/Forged Lord traits are the most obvious.

2a. Force: The “Force,” from the Federation military’s Space-Ground Task Force organization, is largest military unit in the Iron Empires.

Lifepaths/Traits: Cotar Antistes, Cotar Arderes, Lord Steward, Executive Official, First Speaker, Forged Lord (if the ruler of one or more planets), Void Lord.

Organization: A Force typically consists of at least one Anvil Battalion and one Hammer Wing (see below for more description of these). To get more battalions or wings, the exponent of each additional unit would be reduced by one from the starting exponent.

Access: Activating a Force would involve a series of building rolls, making a logistics roll to get the unit supplied and mobilized, circling up a commander and giving him orders. But these powerful characters would have immediate access to a battalion of Guards and flight of ships that they personally command.

Personal Guard: Up to 2 Squads.

2b. Battalion/Wing: In the Iron Empires, Battalions and Wings are personal units, which characters can employ with relative freedom, although they are responsible for maintaining them. These are units of fixed size and start play at the affiliation exponent.

Void Lords aren’t bound by the imperial restrictions on force size, so they could more lower-exponent units. Neither are Anvil Lords on sub-index worlds, especially outworlds, as they can’t easily get their troops off-planet. When increasing the number of units, drop the exponent of the second unit by 1, the third by 2, and so on.

Lifepaths/Traits: Anvil Lord, Hammer Lord, Void Lord, Cotar Fomas.

Organization: A typical low and high index Anvil Battalion consists of battalion headquarters and assets, a company in iron, and two line companies in anvil armor, all with full grav-lift capability. A zero index Anvil Battalion has three line companies in ballistic armor with non-grav (ground or pressor) lift. A battalion totals 450-650 men, at full strength.

A battalion headquarters would have a staff with an X-O, an Adjutant, and a Quartermaster, along with their staff (normally an experienced soldier or sergeant as chief with 1-3 clerks) and 8-12 guards, along with two Grav Tactical Operations Centers, two Anvil Assault Sleds, and several grav sleds with their crews. Battalion assets include an Attack Platoon with 4-6 Attack Sleds, their crews and maintainers; a Scout Platoon with 4-6 modified grav sleds and crews; a Signals Platoon with several vehicles and 10-12 techs; a Maintenance Platoon with 2-4 vehicles, crews, armorers, and machinists, a Supply Platoon with 3-4 vehicles and crews, and a Medical Platoon manning 2-3 evac sleds with one pilot and one medic each and a Field Hospital with a doctor, several medics and orderlies. (In a zero-index battalion all vehicles would be non-grav.)

A Hammer Wing normally has 2-4 Cruisers, 4-6 Patrol Craft, 4-6 Assault Shuttles, and 1-3 Civilian Hammers or Mercators plus some cargo shuttles (for re-supply), organized into Flights of 2-4 ships, either same-type (ie all cruisers) or mixed, for 10-20 ships total. A wing also has a permanent base under a Port Officer with a Maintenance Flight, a Supply Flight, and a Security Flight of 20-40 men.

Personal Guard: Up to a Squad.

2c. Sub-Units: Characters who are sub-unit commanders of have troops under their direct command, but are also, themselves, under the direct command of a Lord or Church leader, and wouldn’t have a free hand in how those troops would be employed. Companies are the normal Anvil sub-unit, while Flights are typical for Hammer. Sub-units have the Exponent of their commander’s Affiliation dice.

Lifepaths/Traits: Cotar Fomas, Lord Pilot, Hammer Captain, Lieutenant, X-O, Anvil Captain, Sodalis-Captain, Inquisitor, Circle of 10,000, Ship’s Captain.

Organization: The Squad is the basic Anvil small unit. It consists of a Squad Leader, Assistant Squad Leader, Squad Support Weapon Specialist, Signals Tech, Medic (who is a combatant), and 3-6 soldiers, for 8-12 total men, often organized into two fire teams of 4-6 each. More elite units replace soldiers with more specialists such as a scout, an engineer, or a stormtrooper. Squads are numbered 1-9 on their armor by company, with each man numbered 1-12 within their squad. A soldier is often identified by squad/number, such as 2/7 or 5/10.

Three squads plus a lift section (4 vehicles with 8-12 crewmen) make up a platoon. A Platoon Headquarters has a Platoon Commander, Platoon Sergeant, Signals Tech, Medic, and up to 2 Runners. A platoon totals 36-54 men. Platoons are numbered, but are usually referred to by color in operation: Red, White, Blue, Black, Green, Brown. Members of the Platoon Headquarters are numbered with the commander as 1, the signals tech as 2, the medic as 3, the platoon sergeant as 4, and so on. So the Red Platoon commander would typically be “Red Leader” or “Red 1” on the radio.

Three platoons comprise a company. A Company Headquarters consists of a Commander, an X-O, two Signals Techs, two Medics, an Armorer, a Machinist, and up to 6 Soldiers as a security detachment, plus a lift section of one tactical operations vehicle and one IFV and 4-6 crew. A company totals 120-180 soldiers. Companies are typically numbered one to three, with iron companies always numbered one, but also have a designation such as “Sword,” “Dragon,” “Whirlwind,” “Black Heart,” etc. The headquarters is often called “Base,” i.e. “Dragon Base.” Note that in combat, companies cross-attach platoons, so a company might have an iron platoon and two anvil platoons. Learning how to coordinate these disparate elements takes some practice.

The Ship is the main Hammer sub-unit typically with a captain or commander, a pilot or helmsman, a sensor or signals specialist, a damage control specialist and a several gunners. Ships may be further organized into flights of 2-4, but these are often only organized for specific missions.

Personal Guard: A security detachment (fire team).

  1. Examples

3a. Baron Sheva’s Landwehr Brigade (from Sheva’s War): Baron Jepard Sheva is an Anvil Lord with Affiliation: Anvil 2D. This gives him a force as follows:

1st “Shappardun” Battalion (Anvil Battalion, sub-index): Ex 4

The Baron, with several of Taramai’s valleys to defend decides he needs more units. Since Taramai is a sub index outworld he is able to add them. So he organizes two more battalions:

    2nd “Shappar” Battalion (Anvil Battalion, sub-index): Ex 3
3rd “Shazar” Battalion (Anvil Battalion, sub-index): Ex 2

The Baron also realizes his forces will need fire support and so recruits an artillery battalion with two batteries, one of six self-propelled guns and one of six towed pieces. However, as his fourth battalion, it would be an Exp 1 unit, not very useful, so he chooses to reduce the exponent of his first battalion by one, to make the artillery Exp 2. His Brigade now looks like this:

1st “Shappardun” Battalion (Anvil Battalion, sub-index): Ex 3
    2nd “Shappar” Battalion (Anvil Battalion, sub-index): Ex 3
3rd “Shazar” Battalion (Anvil Battalion, sub-index): Ex 2
4th Artillery (“Grandpa Sheva”) Battalion (sub-index): Exp 2

Taramai is, as Sheva’s War says, “unable to maintain an adequate Landwehr.” (Note that since Baron Sheva combines military and civil authority, his brigade does not need an extensive support organization.)

3b. CHOT Guard (from Faith Conquers): Commander Tarrak Fike has the Forged Trait and Affiliation: Anvil 1D. This provides the following force Ex 3 Anvil Battalion:

Iron Company
2 x Line Companies

However, the CHOT wants to be Forged, so the GM determines it will cost one Exponent to one company, but without a Hammer affiliation, it will only yield an Exponent 1 Hammer Wing. Fike agrees and chooses to make his third company Ex 2. He also wants to upgrade his iron company, so reduces his other line company one exponent. His force now is as follows:

Hammer Wing Ex 1
Anvil Battalion
	Iron Company Ex 3
	Line Company Ex 2
	Line Company Ex 2

It is a Force, as Lieutenant Urci Fox said, whose “Hammer’s nothing more than a couple of beat up old mercators and tugs” and the “iron company’s supposed to be good, the line companies are dirt from what I hear.”

3c. Hotok Temple Guard (from Faith Conquers): Cotar Fomas Trevor Faith, Anvil Lord, Affiliation: Anvil 1D. His Anvil Battalion is all Ex 3. He manages to convince the GM to swap out one line company for a cavalry company, equipped with more powerful IFVs. The GM agrees, but reduces the iron company exponent by one. The Guard is now as follows:

Iron Company  Ex 2
Armored Infantry Company  Ex 3
Cavalry Company: Ex 3

Faith thus finds himself with “good material,” but the iron troopers will have problems in his upcoming live-fire exercies.

  1. Sources

Initial Concept, Lifepaths/Traits, Access, Personal Guard: Chris Moeller, “Unit Strengths in BE,” http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5064

Unit types: Burning Empires, p. 360 (assuming “Ob 17— Upkeep for an iron company,” is a typo and “company” should read “battalion.”)

Anvil Battalion organization: Faith Conquers, chapter 2, Lieutenant Urci Fox states the CHOT Guard, with one iron and two line companies, is “a anvil battalion.”

Small unit organization: Burning Empires, p. 466.

General: GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces.

That’s my thoughts, lots of room to play, need more on the Hammer side.

This is a really cool concept. It probably needs another iteration, since the rule say “A 1D affiliation represents a small or poorly kept force comprised mostly of conscripts and landwehr with exponent 3 abilities. A 2D affiliation represents a competent or sizeable force …” – i.e. there’s an implication that a 1D force is smaller than a 2D force. Maybe somehow this could tie into the Firefight rules for getting initial disposition bonuses for outnumbering or “vastly outnumbering” the opponent? I’ll have to sit down with the brick and think more systematically about this. You’re onto something very interesting here.

Oh, and the mighty Thor, who should know, fleshes out the numbers point in this thread, relevant portion quoted below:

Dang, missed this before, good points and within BE. I think Chris head the nail on the head when he insisted Traits such as Anvil Lord or Hammer Captain have to modify the Affiliation. What is “small” for a Forged Lord might be large for an Anvil Captain! Thus my push towards some semi-standard unit types and sizes.

Building Anvil

Thinking about building Anvil and following on Thor’s post here http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5498 to wit “a 1D affiliation means a small or poorly kept force, a 2D affiliation means a sizable and well-trained force, and a 3D affiliation means a large and elite force”

and Chris’s post here http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5594 that “The Anvil Battalion is a relatively compact outfit designed to fight on OTHER worlds, and is privately maintained by an Anvil or Forged Lord. It’s generally grav-mobile with organic troop transports (that are banned by law and custom from mounting anything bigger than Vehicular scale weapons). Battalion is a flexible term (like the old Regiment). It can be anywhere
from 3-10+ Companies in strength, depending on the specifics of the title the commanding Lord is granted”

an Anvil thus has both its size and exponent tied to the Affiliation die. Now Sydney is working on what kinds of companies an Anvil Battalion would have, I am interested in how many a Battalion could have.

Say a 1D Anvil Affiliation means 3 company Slots at Ex 3, 2D means 6 company Slots at Ex 4, and 3D means 9 company Slots at Ex 5.

You could swap Exponent for Slots or Slots for Exponent, at a ratio of 1 Ex to 2 Slots.

There would be required companies, say at least 1 Iron Co and 1 Armored Infantry.

There could cheaper companies, say one Slot gets you two Security or Light Infantry Companies, and expensive companies, taking an Artillery Battery for your Anvil takes two Slots.

Of course, once game play begins, your Anvil Lord can work to increase both the size and exponent of his or her battalion.

Does this make some sense?

Strikes me as an elegant solution, Lance. And I see where the confusion with “troop transports not carrying large weapons” came from. I meant space-transports, not IFV’s and suchlike.

Chris

I really like this, Lance.

One question to Chris about canonicity: Are Iron companies sufficiently common that they should be a “required” choice? I’m especially thinking about Taramai’s landwehr, which is mostly light infantry and maybe one artillery company, in the terms we’ve been setting up, with Iron only for individual leaders. Or look at Hotok in Faith Conquers, where the CHOT and the Mundas Humanitas both have one company of Iron – is that impressive or average?

you know where this is all going, don’t you?

expansion pack ;)P

There is no Iron requirement, no. Any Anvil Lord worth his salt will have at least one Iron unit, even if it’s just a guard to keep up appearances.

Iron is like the finest plate armor. Only a small percentage of the wealthiest warriors will be able to afford it.

-chris

So any Anvil Lord but the poorest (e.g. Baron Sheva) will have, say, a squad of 4-5 Lords-Pilot in full Iron as his personal guard and as the iron fist in his velvet glove. But only the more substantial Anvil Lords can maintain a full company of (if you follow my TO&E) of 19 Lords-Pilot in Iron apiece (let alone several companies).

Something like this, then:

Anvil Lord’s Anvil Affiliation - Amount of Iron - % of Anvil Lords in this class
1D Affiliation - one Iron squad (4-5 Lords-Pilot) - 25% of Anvil Lords
2D Affiliation - one Iron company (19-20 Lords-Pilot) - 50% of Anvil Lords
3D Affiliation - two or more Iron companies (40-100 Lords-Pilot) - 25% of Anvil Lords

[Whoops. I misread my own spreadsheet! See this post in the “Anvil TO&E Builder” thread for correction]

P.S. In the scheme above, presumably Baron Sheva started with a 1D affiliation and then used Lance’s optional rules to “buy down” his Iron from a squad of 4-5 to just his personal armor. What did he buy up in return, I wonder? Maybe that rocket-assisted artillery battery which provides covering fire to Sheva’s unit in the initial clash at the granary? Maybe the space tug? Maybe a second Psychologist (Vienne) to help his wife – considering what crap the rest of his troops are, he’s got a remarkable number of Psychologists.

In my brain, Lt. Vienne is a player character. I don’t know why but I have a total mancrush on him. He’s such a pimp.

I’m gonna say that Baron Sheva bought either a Psychologist (Lady Ahmi isn’t bought out of his Anvil Affiliation, I don’t think) or else just more dudes and arty. Remember that he’s got considerable additional force elsewhere on the planet.

And this group of Lords-Pilot would not have to even be part of the Anvil but part of his household, no?

I don’t know that there’s a hard distinction between an Anvil Lord’s Household troops and his Anvil Battalion, but, yes, his personal guardsmen would be attached to him directly.

-Chris

Allthough I appreciate the nerdy-ness of this and I fully endorse the fun found in fictionous military units. Is ours the only gaming table that doesn’t bother tracking the entire soldier (TO&E) rooster of our in-game affiliations? From noble Iron-wearing knight to toilet scrubbing private?

Why not just leave it vague, but open for stunts/descriptions. Need a personal bodyguard? Cricle check and/or puppy-eye the GM.

Need a cook, mechanic, vallet,<random> assistant, or messenger? Circle it. But WHY WOULD THE GM SAY NO? (unless this is/was an exceptional individual)

Keep it simple stupid. Let the story/players fill in the details to fit any concept. All while keeping the rules light and manageable.

Oh, I’m mainly doing this for the sheer nerdjoy. Since “Your Planet May Vary” is a cardinal rule of the Iron Empires setting and the Burning Empires game, from a practical player’s point of view, all of this is here to be used as inspiration when needed and ignored when not.

The Circles rules are very wide open on what “appropriate equipment” a Circled character shows up with, and that’s probably where this kind of thing is most useful in actual play – but I’d be appalled if someone actually slowed down the game for more than 60 seconds to cite this thing.

Syd says it best. this is background. If you want to use it, great, if not, great. Play styles vary (as does interest in this sort of arcana). We never use this at our table, but I’d like to bring it to bear if I can. My tactical mind is irritated by 100% winging it, particularly when it comes to numbers and available systems in a firefight. We spend inordinate amounts of energy determining what our characters’ Perception and Agility are and how they impact a firefight. Number and type of troops have a much greater impact on the way a firefight plays out, and I’d like to feel it’s grounded in something more substantial than my whim as a GM.

But that’s just me.

Chris