Using MG to ramp up to BW

I have really enjoyed reading Mouse Guard and I’d like to run it for our group. They are not that interested in the comics though and would like to play a fantasy game. I know that we could try BW as is but looking through those books I’m less confident I could make it work…

So, if used the mechanics from MG what could I introduce from BW? And, what would not mesh well? What would be critical to have on board when we started and what could we bring in over time?

For example would the lifepaths work or would I need to make changes to make them fit? I’d like to stick to the simpler skill system and only add skills in as I find they are not covered. Would I be able to start with the conflict system in Mouse Guard and bring in the BW systems?

They’re going to want to try magic also. Could this be used at all with the MG mechanics?

Thanks for the help. I’m very happy to have MG since I’ve had BW for a couple of years without getting a game going.

One could migrate in the BW Fight with little difficulty, since MG skills are much wider.

The dice mechanics and levels of skill are quite comparable, so pulling the magic system itself is easy; those magic subsystems using resource points are going to be more of a problem, since MG doesn’t have anything equivalent.

Your group won’t play Mouse Guard as written? It’s super gritty low fantasy.

Yes they would but I have two issues.

  1. Long term they’d like more fantasy (magic, etc). So we are planning on playing a test of MG ‘as is’ but to run a game long term it would need more options.

  2. Also, I’d like to get a handle on and add in some of the systems from BW. I haven’t run it and don’t feel comfortable doing so. I don’t think I’d have a problem running MG so I’d like to use that as my ground level (system wise) and add in additional ‘stuff’ as we go.

So, what do I need to have ‘right now’ from BW so that if I start with MG as a base I can add in the other parts as we go. Can I start with say 3-4 life path characters and the MG mechanics? I’m just not familiar with the system to know what I should keep or avoid.

I’ve looked over the Fight grids and it looks like the MG grid on steroids. I think once we get used to the 3 action script and the types of actions we could move into a Fight! How would the MG skill being wider help?

The dice mechanics and levels of skill are quite comparable, so pulling the magic system itself is easy; those magic subsystems using resource points are going to be more of a problem, since MG doesn’t have anything equivalent.

What are the magic subsystems using resource points? What are the resources used and how in BW are they generated? It looks like that most of the magic systems I’ve seen utilize an Emotion Trait of some sort…would this work with the MG systems or would this be too much?

The grids in BE and BWR are much more specific as to which skills do what.

You’ll be substituting fight for Brawling, Boxing, Weapons Skills; Power and Speed do not have analogues, but could use will and health.

Hi S&S,

  1. Yah, that’s what I was suggesting.

  2. Unfortunately, I’m extremely conservative in this regard. Play Mouse Guard with Mouse Guard’s rules. Play Burning Wheel with Burning Wheel’s rules.

-L

Yeah, I know I should suck it up and learn the dang rules but after trying a couple of times I’m a little discouraged. What about taking this from a different angle. What would I need to use from BW to make it as much like MG as possible. Would I just use avoid the Rim? What makes MG so much more comprehensible? I understand it and feel confident I could run it but with BW my eyes just glaze over and after reading it for the third time and after a demo at last GenCon I still don’t ‘get’ it. :mad: <—mad at myself.

Maybe BW isn’t the game for you?

S&S, I’m afraid I’m just not much help in this realm. Maybe somebody else can help you hack up the game into what you need it to be.

BW & BE are like onions; peeling through the layers all at once can bring tears to the eyes and make any nicks sting like hell, but when used right, has a distinctive and fun flavor.

BW tasks have more options than MG tasks. The skills are narrower, so there are more of them. But the core mechanic is the same. (All MG and BE skills are rated in black, in BWR terms.)

So a go of MG preps players for

  1. separating intent from the action itself,
  2. Stating intent clearly
  3. stating action dramatically
  4. playing beliefs and goals in reward for artha
  5. spending persona and fate artha
  6. Getting used to taking some of the narrative load off the GM
  7. using BITs (instead of BIGs) to inform the GM what they want to see more of in game
  8. knowing what the skill exponents mean in terms of difficulties and success.*
  9. using circles, resources, and skills

The move to BW should probably be to either prepped characters, or simple characters worked up as part of the group. 3 related lifepaths per character, all the same race. Emphasize focussing skills. Make for a short-term goal as belief one, and shared, say, go find and neutralize Bargle the Assassin. Use just the core +Resources and circles, and ply through to 1st goal. Evaluate. See if they want to add fight. Or use the MG conflict system. Or add some other spoke.

But relax, and realize BWR is essentially the same engine as MG, but with lots more options.

Character burning is a lot of fun, but it also is daunting; use the sheets from the downloads page to make it easier to grasp, or use one of the two excellent on-line burners.

Start small, start short term, and let them vote to continue or start over each short term goal.

Stuff that can easily be moved into BW from MG:
Conflict (BWR DoW is an “advanced” version already)
Twists (but usually, a story twist, not a condition; BW/BE injuries suck)
Advancement (P/F vs R/D/C)

I considered this but seeing how much I’m looking forward to running MG and this is a specific limited implemenation of the BW core (is this a fair description?) I would like to give it another go.

S&S, I’m afraid I’m just not much help in this realm. Maybe somebody else can help you hack up the game into what you need it to be.

I wasn’t intending on hacking up the game…:confused:

I want to use MG to more slowly implement BW (both for myself and for my players). They’re your games and I wouldn’t presume to know how best to use them (obviously since I’m having trouble). What I’m looking for is help in getting the system down in an step-wise fashion. If MG won’t help, it won’t help. It was just a thought.

Thanks this is very helpful. What are the parts of BW that are required to start playing that are not covered in MG? Are there any parts of MG that are similar enough to these to help in understanding them?

The move to BW should probably be to either prepped characters, or simple characters worked up as part of the group. 3 related lifepaths per character, all the same race. Emphasize focussing skills. Make for a short-term goal as belief one, and shared…Use just the core +Resources and circles, and ply through to 1st goal. Evaluate. See if they want to add fight. Or use the MG conflict system. Or add some other spoke.

This looks doable especially with some of the premade senarios in the wike/online. Is the MG conflict system found anywhere in the BW books or is is brand new. If new, what will it help us understand the most? If in the books, where is it and does it need to be tweaked to match the MG version?

But relax, and realize BWR is essentially the same engine as MG, but with lots more options.

I get this. I just get lost in it all sometimes. I’m looking for a local person who’d be willing to run me through some of this…I think it’d make a lot more sense done rather than read.

Character burning is a lot of fun, but it also is daunting; use the sheets from the downloads page to make it easier to grasp, or use one of the two excellent on-line burners.

Check. We will probably start with premade characters and move up from there. How do you figure out which life path to take if you want a certain type of character? So many choices?!?

Stuff that can easily be moved into BW from MG:
Conflict (BWR DoW is an “advanced” version already)
Twists (but usually, a story twist, not a condition; BW/BE injuries suck)
Advancement (P/F vs R/D/C)

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No, no, no. I don’t want to move BW into MG I want to use the things I understand in MG to get running a basic version of BW (that’s initially as close to MG as possible so the learning curve is easier) and then add the cool fiddly bits as we get comfortable.

Re-reading my original post I was unclear. Mea culpa.

I want to use my understanding and comfort with MG to ramp up to using BW, hopefully fully implemented if the players and I get to that point. This thread is not about hacking MG and BW appart and making some kind of Frankenstein Monster. Sorry for the confusion.

Also, is there a better section for this thread? (Sparks, Fevered Circle, etc?)

Hey S&S,

If you’ve already played an MG campaign, your players are ready to try BW. Don’t overthink it!

Your main stumbling block will be unlearning the MG rules about FoRKs, helping, etc. Everything else shouldn’t be too hard. If you’ve done Conflicts, Fight!, RnC and DoW ought to be familiar. And they’ll be much better at writing Beliefs than the average newbie.

Good luck with it!