A(nother) question about Range and cover + one about armour

Hi I was reading about range and cover and I noticed something that, unless I’m misunderstanding something, strikes me as quite odd, and possibly a mistake.

On the range table on page 411 or 566 I noticed that for a crossbow at optimal range the hunting bow is also optimal, but at extreme range for the crossbow the hunting bow is out of range. Meanwhile if the hunting bow is positioned at extreme range the crossbow is at optimal range.

This strikes me as odd for several reasons. First of all, it means that if a crossbow user at optimal range wins a withdraw maneuver against a hunting bow user he moves from optimal to extreme (1 range category), but the hunting bow user moves from optimal to out of range (2 range categories). as far as I can see this is the only case where one range category shift for one weapons leads to a 2 category shift for another.

The other reason I think the interaction is odd is that it seems to create situations where winning a maneuver roll might be worse than losing it. If a Crossbowman and a hunting bow user both script closing maneuver with the crossbowman being at extreme range and the hunting bow being out of range then the hunting bow winning wound place him at extreme and the crossbowman at optimal, but if the crossbowman wins they’re both at optimal range meaning the hunting bow has a lover obstacle to hit and more positioning dice for the next maneuver. Obviously the winner might also get to shot, unless the winner is decided by a tiebreaker, but in relation to positioning winning is actually worse.

So is this as error (the oddities can be resolved is a crossbow positioned at optimal range places the hunting bow at extreme range)? is there an explanation for the oddities or did I perhaps misunderstand the rules somehow?

Also an entirely unrelated question about heavy armour: Certain heavy armours reduce you speed by 1d. Does this reduce reflexes?

I’ve always assumed it did, because otherwise the 1d speed reduction for heavy mail would in many situations be preferable to the +1ob penalty for light mail and because it makes sense to me intuitively that heavy armour would slow you down in this way.

A friend of mine however argued the opposite because the rules for wound specifically states the penalty applies both to stats and reflexes implying that penalties to stats doesn’t normally affect derived attributes.


My personal interpretation of edge cases like these are that there are two possible ranges weapon B could be at based on an established range for weapon A, the winner of the test should be able to choose the outcome. If the crossbowman wins the test, then it makes sense that they were able to maneuver to optimal while still staying far enough away to leave the hunting bow at extreme.

It’s correct and intentional. Remember that when changing distances, the winner of the maneuver always moves one category of their weapon (see Winning the Maneuver, page 407). So if a crossbow and a hunting bow are both at optimal range, and the crossbow wielder wins a withdrawing maneuver, the crossbow will retreat out to extreme and the hunting bow will be placed out of range. If the Crossbow then successfully closes again, it will move from extreme range to optimal range and the Hunting bow will be at extreme range.

Ties lead to both sides getting shot opportunities. And losing the maneuver is definitely bad, as your opponent will have the opportunity to shoot and you won’t. When you get right down to it, the crossbow is an extremely effective weapon of war. The hunting bow is quite good if your opponents only have thrown weapons or melee weapons, but you definitely don’t want to put yourself in a position where you’re using hunting bows and your opponents have crossbows (or worse, heavy crossbows).

That is how I think thing should work, but that doesn’t seem to be what the table says. When the crossbow closes from extreme range to optimal, I look at the table either on page 411 or 566 and the matching range for the hunting bow is optimal as well, not extreme. Not possible positioning form the crossbow user can result in the crossbow at optimal range and the hunting bow at extreme, only positioning from the hunting bow can do that. That is what I think is odd and possibly an error. (I tried to insert an image of the table to demonstrate, but the forum only seems to accept links to images, not pictures from the harddrive).