Advancement and Aristeia

So I have a player (a mathematician you’d be surprised to learn from this) a little stuck on a few questions:

  1. If I have a Minor Epiphany and bring a stat from Black to White, does my Aptitude change as per BWGR 545 Heroic and Supernatural Stats
  2. If I have a Minor Epiphany causing me to have now spent 20 Fate, 10 Persona, and 3 deeds on the Stat, does it go to Grey or White for the scene? (Does the permanent Epiphany happen when the points are spent immediately, or does it happen at the end of the scene/Minor Epiphany)
  3. If I have a Minor Epiphany for a Stat and open a Skill through it - does that Skill open at the permanent shade, or the current shade?
  4. If I have several Beginner’s Luck checks in a Skill, and then my aptitude goes down (so say I have Perception B4 and I have 5 tests in Rhetoric, and my Perception goes to B5) do I immediately open Rhetoric?

I know what I think, and I know the rulings we’ve made at our table - but I’m curious about the intentions/community opinion on this (mostly to get outside thoughts to stop the stressing).

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Hi @silverwizard !

We’ve had some of these situations at our table (towards the end of our campaigns, mind you!)

  1. We have only applied the Aptitude change for permanent shifts from Black > Grey > White, rather than from a Minor Epiphany.

  2. We enjoyed having this! We saw this as being applied immediately, so they go from Black to Grey (due to the Artha spend), and then are White shade for the scene (due to the Minor Epiphany).

  3. We saw this as being at the permanent shade.

  4. Yes, when your Aptitude (permanently) goes down, then the skill(s) pop open immediately. The players really enjoyed that!


Cool - yeah - that’s 100% where we ended up - but it’s good to have another voice which isn’t just me saying “This feels obvious”.

Though I think we were all thinking about how horrible it would be to Arestia to open a bunch o’ wises at Grey.

My read is:

  1. Yes

  2. The points go right into the ability when they’re spent; you go up to White then down to Gray at the end of the scene.

  3. Current Shade.

  4. Yeah.

I’m partial to these reads because they add a bit more complexity to the Artha game, but I also think they happen to be the most direct reading of the rules.

While we’re on the subject, Opening the Skill on page 50 of BWGR says that the Codex Chapter, Gray and White Math is the definitive source on all things shaded. @luke, where is that chapter? I don’t see it in my Codex…

EDIT: This thread sheds some light: "Gray and White Math" chapter - #6 by stormsweeper

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So in theory if I Minor Epiphany my perception I might pop open a half dozen wises and academic skills at White?!

If you’ve banked and committed the Artha and lined up the skills, why deny you? If they’re skills you just happened to have in striking range at the time, that can lead to some fun surprises. (“Huh. Guess I’m a god-tier cook. Wild.”)

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