So - first time burning wheel GM, running a new campaign for 6 players (also all new). We ran Twilight in the Duchy for a first session, and despite me making a hash of the bloody versus rules that went pretty well. Then we ran The Sword for the one person who wasn’t there for the first run-through (I added two player controlled monsters) and I got a bit flustered by how to handle six different people with six different goals. I tried to set it up so whoever was closest to the sword got to declare their action first, and then go in order from closest to farthest away. It kinda worked, but I kept having to pause, reannounce what everyone was doing, and I was never quite comfortable handling the ‘initiative’. I also had issues with players totally ignoring what other characters were doing - the elf literally had a knife thrown onto her back by the gambler, and she then proceeded to declaim her ancient Elven right to the sword to the dwarf while she bled from a light wound. I suppose this would be less of a problem in a less intra-party conflict heavy scenario, but I’m still not comfortable with how to decide who goes first and which action takes precedence, especially when some are contradictory.
This is an experienced group (mostly) but their experience is all in the D&D (and similar system) mold. Roll for initiative and go in order. I’m wondering if there’s some similar way to handle this in BW that can ease them into the system and help me handle my herd of cats, especially since we go ‘live’ next time.
There’s really no initiative per se. In situations like you described, I think you’d be best served by asking each player what they want to do, listening, and when there were conflicts, use versus tests to decide who gets what they want.
Can you clarify the procedure for this specific moment of play?
A chaotic table is always going to be chaotic no matter what happens I think. I think it’s reasonable to lean into the chaos. It does feel weird that players are ignoring a bleeding wound, which sounds like they are internalizing the fiction.
But yeah - 6 people arguing sounds like a really good session, but probably stressful as hell.
If people are throwing knives or making large sweeping arguments and being ignored, it’s often worth pulling back and saying “That sounds like a Persuasion test” and gathering up intents and seeing how others will oppose that to make those moments part of the big picture, rather than everyone ignoring everything except their claim to the Sword.
Yes, six is a lot! It was going to be 4, but additional people invited themselves and friendship is more important than easy group dynamics! I suppose what I struggled with was deciding how much time each of their actions took. For example, some actions are obviously going to take longer than others - and a lot of this is my problem, because we’ve been playing Pathfinder 1E on virtual tabletop for the past five years, and I’ve got six second rounds on a movement grid engrained in my brain. I feel I have to break out of my desire to get out graph paper and minis to chart this all out on, and also get my group comfortable with a more theater of the mind and one-roll wham-bam-thank-you-ma’am style of conflict resolution (we aren’t ready for Fight! yet).
The way the dagger in the back moment occurred was - it was the second ‘action round’ that players were able to take. Player A walked to the sword (To examine it - not take it), and while the other players were all advancing on the sword in one way or another, Player B decided to throw a discarded Roden dagger at Player A and play it off as if the party’s guide had thrown it. I made it a linked test - stealth (to see if anyone noticed it) and throwing, for the actual lob. The stealth was partially successful, but the throw worked. I handled the throw by just making it a straight armor dice versus test, since the target did not succeed on her observation roll.
I had expected the party to lose focus on the sword and turn on the companion who suddenly tried to frame another for attempted murder, but they didn’t even break stride. I’m not sure if this was because I had emphasized ‘Follow your beliefs’ and they thought that overrode all other concerns, including self-preservation, or if it was because they are all as new to the system as I am and so aren’t acting like they usually would, or just because it was a one shot and they aren’t attached to these premade fellows. All I can say is they would not have acted like that in my previous experience gaming with them.
Ah. Light wound, just short of Midi. I described it as “You feel a blow from behind as a thrown knife delivers you a glancing blow on your side, just where the front and back side of your leather armor are sewn together. The wound is painful but not deep, but it is bleeding and will need bandages.”
I did the wound penalty, but not the steel test. I kept it to hub and spokes, with the only additional fiddly rule set being the Duel of Wits. But based on other things I’ve heard, I think steel will be introduced next.
Quick question about that! I know the basics - steel versus hesitation, successes reduce actions spent hesitating. If an Elf causes wonderment with a song, and the group of goons stand and drool (we aren’t using Fight! - we aren’t ready for that yet) can he just go around and slit all their throats with one action per ‘hesitation’ remaining? So if there are three, and they all ‘hesitate’ for three ‘actions’, he can coup de grace all three. Or am I misreading?
The book (“Failed Steel Tests” Pg. 361) says that a character is thrown off for a number of heartbeats equal to the MoF. Even 10 heartbeats are only around 10 seconds (significantly less in a stressful situation ). How many thugs can you coup de grace in 10 seconds? I - for sure - couldn’t even get one if they are running and screaming. ^^
“Steel outside of Conflicts” (Pg. 363) just says that the next test will be missed. In this case it’s up to the GM I would say. One Bloody Versus with only Armour dice for the thugs could be an option.
Kai has the right citations. Kai’s also right that you (the GM) have to determine how long a given task takes.
I wouldn’t do a Bloody Vs versus armor dice. If anything, for this I would have the Elf make a Steel test at +2 Ob for committing murder. If they pass, they can slit however many throats you think is reasonable in that time. If they fail, they can’t bring themselves to commit such a cold-blooded act before the thugs can put up a fight. And don’t forget the Ob 4/5 Grief tests for killing/fighting a bloody battle.
It sounds like your group is more attuned to efficient, remorseless violence than character exploration. Do you agree?
Yeah, it seems like you’re used to engaging play as an accounting of all of the player characters’ time. You might try thinking in terms of a movie or a comic book. Ask the players what they’re doing, and then put the important stuff/conflicts in frame, and resolve it with tests.
Yes, I’ve seen the steel tests suggested for cold-blooded murder. I’ll definitely be using that. And we have done more narrative and diplomatic stuff before, so a setting where violent action is really dangerous and not necessarily expected isn’t entirely different. We’ve done Shadowrun before, where the general rule for the party was that the worst job is one where you have to use your gun. They’re not murderhobos, but their recent experience has mostly been in dungeon crawls where nothing wants to talk and everything must be killed to advance.
I don’t actually think they’d do something so infamous, but I absolutely could see one of them wanting to use singing in combat like this and gank the pirate captain or somewhat, so I wanted to know how to handle it. It seems that a lot of the dangerous rules are softened a bit when you use Fight! - hesitation isn’t so bad in that as it is elsewhere.
I was planning on handling some violence with ‘say yes’. Like, you fight through the goblin guards with a hand wave and description from me and reach the inner sanctum where the real dangerous villain is (and the one implicated in beliefs).
). How many thugs can you coup de grace in 10 seconds? I - for sure - couldn’t even get one if they are running and screaming. ^^