Can magicians "memorize down"?

Can a magician memorize a first-circle spell in a second-level slot? Or are slots “as is,” only usable for spells of that circle?

(I assume they are as-is, but my magician’s player insisted I ask.)


I would be okay with that, d&d is the only rp precedent I can think of and it allows that. Logically, it’s the difficulty of the magical formula, more about magnitude than essence, and since a lvl 1 spell is simpler you could definitely memorize it in a lvl 2 slot. I don’t know if there’s a TB canon answer to that, though.

I don’t know what D&D JB played, but there’s no provision for that in the book on my desk.
Also, it’s horribly game breaking. Don’t do it.

Hmm… interesting… that must have been introduced in 3.0 because I don’t see it in my old AD&D book either. Is it game breaking because it allows too much variety and choice? I suppose I had assumed that memorizing a less powerful spell instead of a more powerful spell could have utility, but being a less powerful spell could not be game breaking…

Well, I was against it purely because it would remove the hard choice of “Eldritch Darts, Mystic Porter, Destiny of Heroes: choose two.” :stuck_out_tongue:


If I recall correctly from 3.0, the way to memorize lower level spells on higher level slots was done using metamagic feats. I don’t think that was present in earlier editions.

Not that this is a 3.0 gaming forum, but you could memorize-down in 3.0 without meta magic. It’s just a fairly obscure rule because people rarely do it because higher level spells are better.

It is clear that I didn’t played enough 3.0 in my time. Thanks for the clarification.

I’d at first be tempted to allow it, but not if it’s terribly game breaking. How come it is?

I don’t follow how it’s game breaking, either?

The choice you are presenting is not the one the players face, they are foregoing the second circle spell to choose all three of the first circle spells. I would think that the second circle spells would be sufficiently seductive that there would be some remorse in ignoring their siren call.

Luke, it would be surprising to me for you to have not thought this through, how does it break the game? It seems to me like the wizard is hobbling themselves by not choosing a higher level spell.

You’ll note that we really trimmed spell slots quite a bit compared to what you get in straight D&D. Even so, first circle/level spells are quite powerful. Allowing a magician to memorize three extra Thread of Friendship or Destiny of Heroes spells is an avenue for abuse.

That said, wait until you see Thor’s lightning bolt equivalent spell. Now THAT is game breaking.


I think the question was to memorize one first level spell instead of one second level spell. Of course it would be gamebreaking if you could memorize two level one spells instead of that second level spell.

If you’re a level 3 magician, and thus have access to second circle spells, you already have two first circle spell slots. If you can memorize down, then you would have access to three.

Here’s the problem: Second circle spells are not categorically more powerful than first circle spells. They are more flexible; applicable in more situations. Devlish Laughter, a second circle spell, has uses both in and outside conflicts. But for sheer firepower in conflicts, Eldritch Darts, a first circle spell, outpaces it. Allowing magicians to memorize down significantly increases the power of magicians, especially if they know what they face.

Moreover, being able to memorize down would make elves even more powerful, as they would be sacrificing less to take one of the elven level benefits rather than an additional spell slot.

My joke isn’t funny.