You only get weapon length dice on engage not vie for position.
But you do get positioning advantage dice and that’s based off of prior advantage and weapon length. But I do agree with you, I don’t think he gets the bonus when he switches to sword for the new exchange. Not until you’ve won advantage with it would you get the positioning advantage dice to your VfP.
Right, but this dissuasion has been specifically about switching weapons at the top of the exchange for the new VfP roll. Not mid exchange.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH.
So if you have two weapons in hand and you opt to vie with one over the other, you use whatever advantage/disadvantage you had at the end of the exchange – NOT WEAPON LENGTH.
This discussion has never been about weapon length advantage. It’s been about having positioning advantage with one weapon (or no one having the advantage) and switching off to the weapon in the other hand at the top of the new exchange. And the question has been, if you had advantage with one weapon and then switched to using the weapon in the other hand for the new VfP test, what if any bonus dice do you get?
And you answered it for us Luke. So you WOULD receive the same advantage dice for the VfP test that you held with the other weapon at the end of the exchange, even though you’re now going to be using a new weapon. That’s different than I expected.
You essentially get a non penalized “switch weapons” at the top of the exchange if you have the weapon in hand.
Since that’s the case I now have to ask an annoying question.
Luke, I have a sword in one hand but decide to position against you with my open hand in Exchange 2. You’re using a mace and I win positioning at hand fighting distance. Youre at a +1 Ob for your mace this exchange. Say I maintain advantage throughout the exchange.
Exchange 3 I decide I’m going to start using my sword. You answered above that I still get to have my +1D (for having the advantage with hand vs your mace) to my VfP, even though I will be using my sword. Say I win VfP.
So for Exchange 3, are we still at hand distance (since I utilized my hands distance advantage) or did we shift to sword distance? In other words, are my sword actions going to be at +2 Ob now?
You’re at the advantage for the weapon with which you positioned.
You don’t have “advantage for your hands.” You merely have the advantage +1D.
If I have a sword and shield, should I be able to choose which I’m positioning with at the start of the exchange? I think so. The choice is significant.
I think so too. Consider this nut cracked as far as I’m concerned! Thanks all.
Ok, but I’m still a little confused. Please correct me when I’m wrong. Any help would be great. By the way this is what happened in our very first Fight! attempt.
Two opponents, a) sword and b) sword and shortsword
Exchange 1 - engage with swords, no roll for advantage because weapons are same length, yes?
Volley 2 of Exchange 1, a) pushes - does he suffer a+2Ob because of weapon length hand vs sword? pg458 says you cede advantage but no one had advantage.
a) wins the push, so that now means he has advantage hand vs sword, correct? If b) chose to strike with sword he’d get +2Ob vs hands, yes?
Volley 3 of Exchange 1 both a) and b) choose Strike - a) chooses pomel strike and b) shortsword, both are the same length. I assume that a) cedes advantage because weapon length changed again? but now both are using the same weapon length so does this mean no one gets any Ob penalty?
What about if a) had chosen pommel and b) strike with sword - would a) cede and get a +1Ob , or would b) be at a +1Ob because of weapon length, or would no one have advantage now? If someone has advantage over you with a shorter weapon you can switch to pommel to reduce the advantage, but is the reverse true, can someone with shorter weapon advantage shift longer (specifically hands to pommel to simulate getting in someone’s face and then smacking them around)?
Volley 2 - who has advantage, if any?
And one last question. If I push someone and gain advantage with hands can I still claim the advantage if I use a dagger which is the same length? Basically someone with a sword comes at me, I get up close with a push, knock him back, and now I’m in his face. I now want to knife him at the same distance.
Yes he cedes advantage because he has switched weapons from sword to hand. b now has advantage.
if a) wins the push by 2 in a vs or exceeds the obstacle in a standard test you take advantage. Assuming those are true b) has a +2 ob
I believe in this case a) cedes advantage but there is not weapon length differences so there is no ob penalty.
Assuming I am correct since a) cedes advantage then a) would have a +1 OB in this instance. Anytime you switch your weapons during an Exchange you cede advantage.
b) has advantage for the VfP test.
I think no. Again anytime you change weapons you cede the advantage. pg 458 first sentence under the heading Switching Weapons During an Exchange seems pretty clear. “Any time you change, switch, drop, choke up on, or otherwise futz with your weapon, you cede the advantage to your opponent.”
Now to the people who will ask about the switch between exchanges for VfP… Note the heading is During an Exchange.
Thanks. This is my take too. Page 458 even says if you push and then strike with a weapon and not your hands you cede advantage. My take and probably house rule is going to be that you cede advantage if your weapon length is different because I want to get up close and then knife. I think this makes sense and fits with the intent. Otherwise technically speaking a character armed with 2 short swords would cede advantage if he positioned with one and struck with the other; and perhaps even if he use a 2 fisted attack, technically.
One nitpick. When you succeed at the Push with enough successes to win advantage, you win advantage with whatever weapon you positioned with if it was “long or shorter”. So in your swords example…the push technically could have been enough to gain you advantage but you positioned with sword, as did your opponent. So no advantage kicks in and no one is at a an +Ob for sword actions.
In your knife example, if you positioned with your knife then the push (with enough successes) does get you advantage with your knife.
This interpretation is based off of the Push description and p. 459 Trading Advantage. We talked about Push over in this thread a little. The conclusion was never corrected by our Leaders so I’m assuming it holds.
This thread just keeps pumping out goodies!