And yes, I just thoroughly reread the Fight chapter!
But, while there is a paragraph on changing weapons during an exchange, what happens when you want to change weapons between exchanges, if you already had the advantage with your old weapon?
In this case, I had seized advantage with my hands, against my opponent’s hands. Since I had a free hand, it was legitimate to position with my hands, right? But at the end of the exchange, I wanted to Vie for Position with my sword. The way we interpreted it was, I can do it, but no one gets any bonus dice (since sword did not previously have the advantage). Was this correct?
This is covered on p. 458, under Fighting with Two Weapons: "…choose which weapon you’re positioning with at the top of exchange." You still have the advantage, you should have had the advantage dice to vie for position. Make the colour fit the results of the vie roll.
Of course, you couldn’t do that if you had dropped, or not yet drawn, your sword.
Oh, so I actually should have gotten the 2D bonus. Neat! Makes gaining advantage by way of grappling maneuvers very valuable if someone with a shorter weapon closes on you.
Are sure about that Alexander? I would have assumed that since Matt had the advantage with his hands that as soon as his Intent to change to sword for positioning comes up, he cedes advantage to his opponent (using hands). So Matt is now at a 2d DISADVANTAGE in the positioning test that’s about to roll off.
No. That’s during an exchange. The exchange was over. Now they position. Who had advantage at the end of the exchange? Matt. He then–again, as per “Fighting with Two Weapons”, p. 458–gets to choose which weapon (hands or sword, still drawn), he uses to vie for position.
Conceptually, consider the positioning roll at the end of an exchange as the aggregate of motion during the exchange just ended, rather than a discrete pseudo-action between exchanges. In this example, Matt was ducking in and out, successfully took advantage grappling, then tried to leverage that advantage to use his sword. The Vie for Position roll is determining whether he retains the advantage or not.
Yeah, I can go with the “aggregate of motion” concept so that works.
The main problem I have with that interpretation though is that it’s actually treating that borderline between exchanges as something unique. At no other time in Fight can you choose to switch weapons maintain Advantage, it’s always ceded to your opponent. Yet with your interpretation, there’s that weird mechanical moment that you actually get to do just that, no need to do a Push or anything. Just free.
You’re explanation is good though, so now Im torn. The entry under fighting with two weapons doesn’t influence me either way though. It’s just making clear that you position with one or the other, and base the rest of the exchange off of that until you try to otherwise influence it.
There’s always downbeats in a Fight. That’s what this “special” pseudo action can represent. You use the downbeats to run away, to switch to your offhand, etc. It’s just a few seconds, but they happen regularly in fights and it’s sometimes all you need.
Because an exchange is so structured, we’re often lead to believe every exchange takes place over the exact same amount of time, but this isn’t necessarily true. You can totally narrate that it took a full 30 seconds to really get that Lock on that Orc and you were watching and waiting for that moment where he succumbed for a brief second so you could get that sword in your offhand ready.
For the sake of this specific discussion, it may be important to point out that no one had an advantage going into that next exchange. Same weapon lengths can’t gain Advantage.
The topic is still relevant if we imagine a mace in one hand with Advantage and then switching to your sword in the other between exchanges.
I still can’t help but feel the switch gives your opponent Advantage though, even though its not mid-Exchange. Or at the very least, you just default out to no Advantage prior to the new VfP. Somethings just not jiving for me with the free switch. Theres something weird about it that I can’t identify just yet but I’m still considering it.
Edit: The more I think about it the more I like just saying, if you switch weapons for the new VfP test, you just lose whatever Advantage you previously had. Straight up VfP, no bonus from weapons. If you win, your opponent is now Disadvantaged to whichever weapon you were positioning with.
And when I say “free switch” above, I’m referring to getting the Advantage dice from your longer weapon even though you haven’t earned them.
That’s right. I recalled this above as well. It’s still an important discussion though because it could easily arise with any other weapon combination that isn’t same length.
Well, of course, I wouldn’t get bonus dice for positioning with my hands against hands. But my weapon combo was open hand plus sword… and I wanted to switch to my sword between exchanges.
If you position with your hands and then switch to your sword, you cede advantage. No roll required. BWG, pg 458. At the beginning of the next Exchange when you Vie for Position again, you’d get some advantage dice for the longest weapon and then you’d roll.