Charcter Burner Issues?

Hello everyone,

I am new, and the online character burner has been a big help. Thanks ever so much. That said, I noticed a couple of things and I want to make sure that either I am reading the rules right or the builder itself is in error.

  1. I have noticed that when you have a Grey or White shaded will, the hestitation is still subtracted from 10 in the burner. It was my understanding that those will would be subtracted from 8 (Grey) or 6 (white) respectively. Is that correct?

  2. I have noticed that mixed skills don’t seem to get the root boost they should be if one of the two roots is Grey. For example a character with a Grey-4 Agility and a Black-6 Perception should open up the mending skill (Agi/Per) at B4 yes? [The average is 5 which halved rounded down is 2 but then you get a +2 bonus for the mixed shades.] The Builder onlyl opens it up at B3 which is why I am asking.

Thanks again.


  1. You add the +2 before averaging, not after. So B3 is correct.

Rereading the rule…Thanks, it seems you’re right. Thanks for clearing that up.


I think that grey Will still gives you a Hesitation of 10-Will (instead of 8-Will). That said, grey shade Will is pretty badass already so the extra help isn’t really needed.

That said, don’t worry too much about shade shifting stuff when you’re starting out. I for one would rather have Will B7 instead of Will G2 as a starting character (it takes a lot more work to knock you out for starters).

That said.

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Well sure, especially since the artha you need to spend to advance the stat anyway will eventually give you an epiphany anyway. I was simply playing around with the character burning process and kicking the tires of the game more or less.

Thanks for the help.


When you click Summary the contents of the Concept box is shown as the name. The content of the Name box is lost.

I’m curious how Child Prodigy will be handled in the final product. A secondary menu like citywife to select and option I suppose.

In the Old burner I used to turn on cheat, make the changes, and switch cheat off again so dropdown menus weren’t a cluttered bother, but the new version removes everything not legal after turning off cheat mode.

According to page 545 of the Gold Edition Burning Wheel Book (under Heroic and Supernatural Stats: Will):

Hesitation for grey shade Will is 8 minus the exponent. Hesitation for white shade Will is 7 minus the exponent.

I was wrong about the White Shade Will, but I did definately remember the rule. Took a while to track it down though.


Well, I stand corrected. I’d still rather have Will B7 / Hes 3 than Will G2 / Hes 6.


Faster advancement to get you back into line with the slower going high number, opening grey skills, starting to shadeshift attributes. All these are worth less than 3 hesitation and aptitude?

It’s worth: not having Will 2 (basically a world of hurt there unless you’re a troll with Brute), having a decent chance of taking an injury and not hesitating in a fight. Injuries (generally) don’t kill people in Burning Wheel, incapacitation and hesitation kill people. Two Light wounds or one midi (or six superficials I guess) and you’re out of the fight. Not to mention your Perception is probably super low due to dumping all your Mental points into offsetting the shade shift penalty (unless, I dunno, you’re playing an 8 LP character or something equally profane).

I’m not so sure. If someone were to greyshift will, they wouldn’t put a G2 in it. Instead if you’ve got 12-14 points in mental attributes (and this is doable with some 5LP’s characters esp five), you simply pay the ‘five’ surcharge and then balnce out the rest as though you had a lower total. To wit, a character with 13 mental stats (very doable on 5 LPs) might put 4 into Per and 4 into Will. Not outstanding but quite respectable especially if that 4 Will or 4 Per is Greyshaded. The alternative would likely be 7 Will and 6 Per which wouldn’t even be allowed at many tables because of the 6D starting attribute limit.

Of the two, I’m not so sure that the G4 Will and B4 Per isn’t better than the G7 Will, B6 Per.


It depends on what you’re playing. For a 5LP char in a short or medium term game an exponent of 4 is likely to be more of a liability than the benefit of the gray shaded skills.

Really? I thought 4 was average in Burning Wheel. In any event, it seems relatively balanced to me. The choice is a short term liability for a longer term greater gain, or a short term gain for a harder long term advancement. In short, I think 5 is about the right “price” to make the choice painful but interesting.