Close Combat: Even/Uneven Successes

Burning Empires Firefight
1

Unit Close Combat - Problem with the disposition subtraction
Close Combat, p. 484:

Even successes divide evenly, uneven successes divide in the favor of the winner.

Deadlock: Winner -1 and Loser -1
Winner wins by 1: Winner -0 and Loser -1
Winner wins by 2: Winner -1 and Loser -1

So if the winner is better, he is not rewarded. I will have problems explaining that to my players.

Why not make it like this:
The winner loses half successes (round down) and the loser loses full successes.

Deadlock: Winner -0 and Loser -0 (perhaps it should be -1/-1 with a rule tweak)
Winner wins by 1: Winner -0 and Loser -1
Winner wins by 2: Winner -1 and Loser -2

Or is there something i did not understand?

2

It’s a proven fact, powergamer combat players or just number crunchers hate the CC dispo rules. Oh well. Don’t use the action – Close Combat is DANGEROUS. You only use when you’re ready to risk compromise. Daring, bold and desperate commanders use Close Combat, conservative or skittish commanders don’t.

-L

3

I think the point of the CC mechanics is that close combat is massively dangerous and disruptive to ANYONE who enters it. Getting successes means you close with the enemy. And everyone’s worse off for it. No one can hear orders, lines become confused, smoke coveres everything. It all goes to hell. The attacker is Slightly better off Sometimes. The real damage is in the individual actions… usually you get maybe one or two shots off per action. In CC, EVERYONE shoots. So if you’re actually better, you’ll inflict the disposition damage as casulties, not in the fact that you managed to close to hand to hand distance.

4

Thanks, Mike!

5

Do you want to say: “Hey folks, CC is bloody. And in bloody combat logic is the first victim.”?

I see. The game is your baby. But I’m not sorry to ask a question.

…

OK, Close Combat is bloody. OK, fine. I totally agree with that. That was not my point. I can see through your Obfuscate-Action! :slight_smile:

The more successes you roll, the better.
This logic structure can be found in all rules of the game. Best to be seen in the open ended tests. But i do not have to explain your rules to you, nor should i.

The attacker is Slightly better off Sometimes.

Mechanically not sometimes but he is slightliy better off everytime he does worse than the last even number of successes.

My point is that the winner gets punished by the mechanic for rolling too much successes. I really do not care if you start by -1/-1 or -3/-3, so that everything is bloodier. By the way, it doesn’t appear logical to me, evil number cruncher that i am, that with 0 or 2 successes i get the same result. This is not the same argument.

So if you’re actually better, you’ll inflict the disposition damage as casulties, not in the fact that you managed to close to hand to hand distance.

That saves my day. Finally it may not be logical, but it is not so important. On the other hand… isn’t it so, that you only will have casualities by the hand of the characters? If you’re fighting 1500 Stormtroopers in CC, you only roll for your 3 characters involved, not for the 1500 Stormtroopers. The rest is simulated by the disposition-losses.

It’s difficult to get this story-reality in my head. It is great, but i have my difficulties with it. That’s why i’m asking questions. Hope that this does not offend.

6

You do not get the same result with 0 or 2 successes. Don’t consider your own disposition for a second – there is a massive difference between your enemy losing 0, 1 and 2 points of disposition. Think about this: in order to inflict that harm on your enemy, in order get close enough to do even MORE harm, you have to pay what you give. Some units can afford to pay. Some can’t. If I’m winning a Firefight, I’ll gladly use CC as my closing action to smash into your unit and finish you off in a thunderous manner. If I lose a couple dispo points, no big deal. The point is, I’ve crushed your unit.

-L

7

:idea:

You’re right (of course). I made a mistake in my table. With 0 successes (deadlock), both sides loose nothing initially.

To paraphrase:
Normaly both sides suffer, but the stronger side can stand up to the suffering better than the weaker side. If the successes divide uneven, then there is a little bonus for the winner. The mechanics representing the chaos of the CC, slightly in favour for the winner.

Thank you for taking the time explaining.

8

My pleasure! Best of luck with your game. Please post about it here on the forums!

-L