Gnosis First Step

Miseries & Misfortunes System
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My players are about to discover their first grimoire (The German Bible) and I’ve gone back over the Gnosis & Grimoires rules to get a feel for them. Especially as I have a Barber-Surgeon with an academic background and a desire to gain what Gnowledge he can.

And they’ve left me a little confused, I’m afraid.

  1. I’m assuming that the literal meaning of the words is right, and you need, par exemple, exactly 4 Gnosis “to read the Archidoxes of Magic by Paracelsus (1/4)”. If Gnosis spontaneously changes partway through the Interpretation, does that prevent the Gnosis gain?

  2. I likewise assume the strictest reading of “Interpretation” is right: you can’t interpret a text unless you have the exact right Gnosis, or have interpreted a step up or down. How then, does an acolyte start off learning without a huge degree of luck, having a grimoire they can “grab onto”?

  3. Related to the above: if a player has no idea what their Gnosis is, what things should they be considering doing as their PC if they’ve picked up a few different volumes and none of them have been interpretable?

  4. It js very clear that as much information as practical is obscured from the players: what information should the GM give if they cannot interpret a work?

  5. How can I obscure a grimoire’s Gnosis rating if a player is rolling Interpretation? (and I can’t really just hide the roll, as they can spend exertion on it)

  6. How long does finding out all this stuff take, especially if there is practical knowledge that they are gaining?

I really like the vibe from the rules, it’s just when it came time to have them enter play, these concerns came up. Unfortunately, I’m not sure that they’re edge cases: both the PCs who want more Gnosis (a Bruxa and a Barber-Surgeon) have too much already to read most Grimoires, and I’m not sure what I should tell them about it when that happens.

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Hi there, this sounds exciting! I haven’t yet used the rules but here’s my interpretation in case it helps:

  1. The rules of Interpretation just claim you need the required gnosis at the start of the process, and then at the end of the process you need to roll for the book’s rating. So I would say it is ok to be flexible. However, the issue for me would be whether or not the character can divert their attention during the weeks spent interpreting the text, since it is meant to be a very consuming process, so not compatible with most endeavours except perhaps travelling and similar.
  2. The rules provide several means for new mystics to enter the path to knowledge, such as the Focus rules, or the rules for Fields of related Knowledge, both granting bonuses to improve the book’s gnosis roll. Of course, the book choice is also a factor here, so I suppose ideally GMs should present low-level books to new learners.
  3. I believe in that case it is OK to hint the player the character lacks sufficient background to make sense of all those words they successfully read but fail to truly understand. Perhaps they need to strengthen their background by reading more basic works or seek assistance from a wiser person.
  4. I had a similar problem with Call of Cthulhu, and for that reason I usually kept a bit of background info to give out when the roll was not successful, like some trivia, inconclusive information pointing to the general direction of the book or perhaps some “consolation prize” like a specific tidbit that could be directly useful to the reader’s endeavours but insufficient to attain their objectives (perhaps an incomplete or a coded formula that can be revealed upon interpreting the grimoire successfully).
  5. I believe here the idea is the GM rolls. As far as I know, this roll does not allow for Exertion, at least looking at the use scenarios described in pages 72-74 under Mortal Coil rules.
  6. If you refer to the process of interpretation, the rules suggest the process takes 1d2 weeks per gnosis point acquired.
  7. As per the last issue described, I suppose it’s solved by having them spend the gnosis in some project or use, which I suppose is partly behind the design concept of being unable to read grimoires that are too basic for your knowledge when your gnosis is equal or higher than the book’s gnosis rating. Perhaps there is only so much a mortal can know, and the only way to go beyond those bounds is to embark in not only study but practice…
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Im afraid I’ve been a bit unclear in some of these points, not quite asking the right questions. Your answers match with what I’ve read, but don’t help my core question.

  1. I usually agree but, for example, if you read for 6 weeks and then your best friend’s house gets set on fire, maybe you put the book down and adventure for a short time.

  2. The issue isn’t that they’re low Gnosis. It’s that they haven’t read a first Grimoire. If you have Gnosis 7, you can’t read any Grimoires: 1/6 Grimoires are too basic, and 1/8 too advanced. Focus won’t help: that gives you a higher chance to interpret, but won’t let you roll if you otherwise wouldn’t.

3&4. Thanks for your answers here. I think the issue with your answer in 3 is that I’m not sure your answers work: imagine instead of askimg about GM hinting to players, that I’m asking “what’s the optimal strategy in this situation” and to 4 my question was a bit more specific “do they know it’s too advanced/basic so they couldn’t interpret it? Or do they not know that they couldn’t interpret it at all? Would you only give either of these bits of information if they succeed at the language roll?”

  1. Page 8 of Sacred and Profane says “you can spend exertion to reroll a failure and add your bonus to your interpretation roll”.

  2. My question was directly linked to the above: if you’re not gaining any Gnosis, then 0d2 weeks seems awfully short to learn spells, get maps, and glean that this ain’t the right book for you.

  3. I think you might be right. Unfortunately, I think the German Bible might be a quaint toy in my PCs hands.

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Absolutely, I’d say you are right and that the GM is free to decide whether to be strict on this or not.

I get what you mean now, sorry. However, after rereading the rules, which I had initially misunderstood, I would say your main thesis here is not correct: If you have gnosis, 7 you can indeed read books with lower Gnosis dice sizes. In fact, having at least an equal amount of Gnosis to the book’s Gnosis score is a requisite to read it.

I believe you may be referring to the last paragraph under Fields of Related Knowledge, but that part does not mean you can’t read a grimoire with a Gnosis dice size under your current Gnosis, but rather that you can’t take advantage of those bonuses (that greatly improve your chances to successfully interpret the book).

So, for instance, imagine your Bruixa (Gnosis 7) successfully reads the German Bible (1/3), they directly meet the Breadth of Knowledge requirement. Next, she would need to study the text for 3d2 weeks and do the final absorption roll. 1/3 is not too shabby, but she could choose to improve her odds by either Focusing a maximum of one step (1/2) or taking advantage of the Fields of Related Knowledge rules, which in this case would also be limited to a maximum of +1, as otherwise she’d be at 3/3 to learn the gnosis, in which case the character is denied the chance to interpreting the book at all.

I’d say the whole thing relates to the previous misunderstanding, but a combination of both rules probably facilitate even harder reads. Off the top of my head, perhaps one could even allow getting a +1 to try interpreting the German Bible if they are familiarized with other Bibles.

You are right, my bad. I guess then the rules don’t say clearly it is a secret roll but I guess it must be.

I am not following here: if I understand the process correctly, if you successfully read the book but fail to interpret it, you still spend whatever xd2 weeks listed for reading the tome. However, I guess you could still use the rule in the last paragraph in section Absorption Time to give the character a chance to realize they are wasting their time.

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Thanks! Writing on my phone so I’m unable to helpfully quote so easily.

I prefer your reading regarding Gnosis amount, I’m just unsure whether or not it is a minimum or an exact requirement; I listed it originally as an assumption because it seems a case could be made for either, but the example says “Gnosis 4” and if Luke does mean “at least equal to” rather than “exactly equal” he could have used a different value in the example, or otherwise made that clear.

For interpretation, I think familiarity with Bibles is “have read a text by the same author(s)” for sure; and as it’s the first book that’s actually being interpreted, they don’t get an additional +1 from prior interpretation. It’s just whether she can get to that point that I’m unsure of.

For the xd2 weeks: absorption time says that it takes that long because it’s D2 per point of Gnosis interpreted, which to me means that not interpreting at all might impose a different timeframe (it’s clear that misinterpretation/failure to interpret give rise to specific failure conditions as detailed). 1d6 sounds like a good maximum though.

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Hi upon rereading, yes I understand your doubts, with that wording indeed. Thanks to you, I am currently translating this book so this was good help to better understand the system.

Cheers,
Eloi

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