Hammer Marine Lifepaths Discussion

Burning Empires Burning Empires Character Burner
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EDIT: The stats in this thread are working drafts. Please see the final versions on the Burning Empires Wiki.

And as long as I’m talking about Hammer:

Hammer Marine
Time: 4 yrs
Resources: 1
Circles: 0
Stat bonus: +1 P
Skills: 5 pts: Zero G (Spd), Close Combat (Wil/Agi), Security (Per), Boarding-wise (Per), Assault Weapons (Agi)
Traits: 1 pt: Anvil Trained
Requirements: Yeoman or Coeptir

This is marines in the classic sense of sailors armed and trained for shipboard security and small boarding or landing parties, not a sci-fi version of the US Marine Corps (which would be Anvil).

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Calling them sailors might be a bit much =P But yes, dedicated naval infantry as opposed to the groundpounders makes a lot of sense. Though you could probably simulate that well enough by going from yeoman to soldier, or vis versa.

And commissars certainly do exicute people themselves! But your point is well taken. I’m just thinking that ANY MP, no matter how they got there, is going to have access to basic firearms and close combat training. If you want to have a pen pusher, don’t take the skill. If you want a scary soviet commissar who has made a career out of shooting unsuccessful officers in the head, sobeit. Or not. Just thinking out-loud.

And yes, Sergeant requires Soldier, but if you get to MP through Psychologist or Inquisiter, you aren’t going to be able to get to sergeant. Though, thinking realistically, it would be better to say that Staff Officer or Lieutenant could be accessed by having MP AND Psychologist/Adjutant Inquisitor

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Ok, let’s pause a moment. BW/BE are fairly well researched, right? I mean, I like to think I do my homework. So one could reasonably expect me to happen upon Marine type fellahs when researching my space navy. And I did! But I didn’t include them. Why?

Well…because according to the source material, a Hammer Lord can’t have ground troops. “Marines” look dangerously close to ground troops – heavy armor, assault weapons, boarding, etc. Hm. If I were a Forged Lord (and I am), I would immediately take action against any Hammer Lord who thought it was a wise idea to equip his crew as anvil soldiers.

Because if I told him once, I told him twice: You must talk to the Forged Lord and get anvil attached if you want to conduct “amphibious” operations. Same goes for you, hammer boy!

-L

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Also, in retrospect, given that some Anvil assets are capable of making orbit, it becomes even less important to have dedicated marines. Now, shipboard security is another issue, perhaps a space analogue for the MP lifepath is in order? Discipline officer is good, but how does he enforce the dicipline in face of an actual mutiny when no Hammer lifepaths have any personal weapon skills? Not talking heavy weapons, and certainly not Anvil, but possibly close combat or assault weapons? Should we just assume that one or two men in the crew spent some time in the Anvil before switching services?

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This is spinning off into a new topic. I’m going to split the topic. Don’t respond until it’s split.

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Ok. All set. The moderation for these boards is different, so it took me a second. It’s cool though!

Anyway, Hammer Crews and a mutiny? Hm. Well, if you look at the hammer craft, the crews for them are very small. From my research, space craft crews would be small out of necessity. Hammer spacecraft, given the crucis implants, probably wouldn’t look like the ships we know today. Look at the first few pages of Faith Conquers. Chris hints at it there, I think. A command compartment completely separated from the crew transport sections. Actually similar to what’s described in Starship Troopers, too.

So while mutinies are possible, they’d probably be technological in scope rather than physical. Crucis control would probably have security measures that allow for lock outs and overrides and whatnot.

So a huge security detail would probably cost more in air and water than it’s worth.
-Luke

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Yeah, it’s kinda hard to mutiny when your air supply is contaminated with knock-out gas.

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Luke, I’m with you most of the way. I’m totally prepared to take the boarding action in “Faith Conquers” as not merely a semi-mutinous expedient, but standard practice: If you want to board a spaceship, you borrow yourself a platoon of Anvil Elite, because there ain’t no big boarding parties of Marines.

If there are any armed personnel on board a Hammer vessel, they’re going to look a lot more like Military Police than frickin’ Space Marines. But I do think there’ve got to be SOME armed personnel organic to the crew.

Look at it from the Hammer Lord’s perspective: Does he have to borrow Anvil troops – possibly waiting days in the process – every time he has any kind of security issue that requires any kind of personal weapons skill? Setting aside mutiny, what if he wants to search a suspicious vessel, or send a shore party to get supplies at a crime-ridden mining colony, or even transport a prisoner? Is he stuck with five Yeomen and a Discipline Officer all looking at the ship’s single 9mm pistol going, “You carry it - I’m not carrying it - It might go off!”

So, taking your points about not going too ground-force in mind, and especially your very good point about cybersecurity being a bigger deal than physical security on board a high-tech spacecraft, how about this revision:

Sergeant-at-arms
(Hammer setting)
Time: 4 yrs
Resources: 1
Circles: 0
Stat bonus: none
Skills: 4 pts: Security (Per), Close Combat (Wil/Agi), Security Rigging (Per/Agi), Explosives (Per/Agi), Zero G (Spd)
Traits: 1 pt: Obedient, Alert, “Hammer Flies, Anvil Dies”
Requirements: Yeoman

So first and foremost, the Sergeant at Arms mans the security console aboard ship (Security); secondarily, he teaches uppity folks lessons with stun baton and pistol (Close Combat); and thirdly, he deals with mutineers, smugglers, or other obnoxious types who’ve holed up behind computer-locked doors (Security Rigging plus Explosives and, maybe, Zero G). Get into a firefight? Are you crazy? Go ask some Anvil knuckledragger to get his hairy ass shot off for you.

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Interesting. I like it, but I’m not 100% sold.

For a name, I’d prefer something a little less Napoleonic. How about Hammer Armiger, Ship’s Armiger, Captain’s Armiger, Red Shirt, or Master-at-Arms?

I’d rearrange the skills: 7 pts: Close Combat, Zero G, Security, Explosives, Ship Security-wise, Malcontent-wise, Weapons Locker-wise

I think on board the ship, Security and Sec Riggin would be redundant. Sec Rigging is for hacking sec systems. He and his superior, the Discipline Officer, would be in charge of the ship’s sec system.

Requirements: Yeoman, Armiger, Novitiate, Security Officer, Sodalis or X-O

What do you think?
-Luke

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Right, Master-at-Arms is the correct US and UK navy term. “Sergeant” was a slip of the brain on my part. (See the Navy listing of M-a-A subspecialties).

I’d rearrange the skills: 7 pts: Close Combat, Zero G, Security, Explosives, Ship Security-wise, Malcontent-wise, Weapons Locker-wise

I think on board the ship, Security and Sec Riggin would be redundant. Sec Rigging is for hacking sec systems. He and his superior, the Discipline Officer, would be in charge of the ship’s sec system.

Requirements: Yeoman, Armiger, Novitiate, Security Officer, Sodalis or X-O

I’d like to keep Security Rigging in there, for the simple reason that you may have to open a hatch on somebody else’s ship or station, or that some mutineer has screwed with by installing his own jury-rigged electronic lock. And I’d like to keep Security as the first (required) skill, because as you said, it’s electronic and automated systems that are the ship’s first line of defense against intrusion (and possibly the second, third, and fourth lines as well). I imagine the Master-at-Arms as spending most of his time watching the security console, or going about the ship checking on security systems, while the Discipline Officer is keeping an eye on the crew. In the same line, I also think of this as more of an noncom lifepath, so I think “X-O” is probably a little too exalted to lead to it.

I like Malcontent-wise and Weapons Locker-wise a lot.

So, revising:

Master-at-Arms
(Hammer)
Time: 4 yrs
Resources: 1
Circles: 0
Stat bonus: none
Skills: 7 pts: Security (Per), Close Combat (Wil/Agi), Zero G (Spd), Security Rigging (Per/Agi), Ship Security-wise (Per), Malcontent-Wise (Per), Weapons Locker-wise (Per)
Traits: 1 pt: Obedient, Alert, “Hammer Flies, Anvil Dies”
Requirements: Yeoman, Armiger, Novitiate, Security Officer, or Sodalis

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Excellent discussion, boys. Perhaps “Jacked Weapons-wise” as a skill, since Jacked weapons are essentially Hammer versions of Anvil weapons, designed for low-recoil and use in cramped spaces (as an aside, “jack” comes from the age-of-sail term for sailor: “Jack Tar”).

Luke’s right about small crews too, btw.

Chris

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Revised version now on the Wiki.