I’ve read what I think are the relevant bits, and I think I’ve missed something obvious. How do scenes affect maneuver rolls? I know that you need to collaborate in building scenes to help with the maneuver roll. And I assume direct effects, such as killing someone in a firefight to prevent them from making the maneuver roll, etc.
Is there any connection between the success or faillure of conflict or building scenes and the maneuver roll? I read the maneuver roll can’t be a linked test.
Hey Fuseboy,
Check out this thread “Winning the battle but losing the war”:
http://burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2929
The lack of direct effect of scene outcomes on maneuver rolls is one of the things that has got the game some flak on places like rpg.net etc. In my opinion, it’s also one of the most brilliant things about the design of the game. Because all the ways that the scenes affect the maneuver rolls are “indirect”, it means you can play competitively - play to win - but still maximize the “fun” / “cool factor” / “narrativism” or whatever you want to call it, of your game. For example, even though you’re playing competitively, you can still get your character into a tight situation because you think it’s cool, or have him make a choice where he “loses” (e.g. he decides to save his sister and instead of stopping the Vaylen plans). If those things get you artha, that can still help you in the Infection race.
Here’s a list of the indirect ways the scenes affect the Infection roll:
Cheers,
Mike
No, that makes sense. Thanks!
Scenes effect maneuver rolls in HUGE ways, but you (all) really really need to leave behind these outmoded concepts of “success and failure” in the micro. There is no success and failure in the micro, there is only play. Success and failure is determined only in the macro maneuvers.
The scenes, in the way that they evoke Beliefs (and thus trigger the story/reward currency cycle aka compromise and artha and advancement), plug into the macro rolls via the use of help and the expenditure of artha (which you can only get by playing and accomplishing your Beliefs in game). Jonathan and Matt have a VERY clear view of this cycle now. I’m sure they will back me up.
-L
In general I do, indeed, agree with Luke, though I would add that success vs. failure can matter during the micro scenes to a small degree in that it’s a matter of earning Fate vs. earning Persona for your Beliefs.
However, you should be able to earn Persona other ways, like through awesome roleplay, and the MVP and Workhorse awards.
I would also add that certain Infection Maneuvers require your micro actions to in some way reflect what you’re trying to do in the Infection, right? Like Assessing or Activating various Factions?
Matt
The reins are very loose on this, but the manuever should ideally be driving the scenes you play. I think a lot of the disconnect people feel is because they choose the manuever then forget about it in play. If you’re doing a Take Action, you damn well better be taking some action in your scenes!
Part of being a GM in BE is being firm in what to allow. Enforce the rules about helping and what skills may go into the Infection roll. Be strict about matching the base skill with what actually happened in the manuever’s scenes.
I push the scene-maneuver connection for my players on two ways:
Make sure someone’s taking care of the scene that will activate the maneuver – ensure the conflict is relevant to the attack, or someone’s build is relevant to the defense. We’re requiring that the skill you use in the scene is the skill you roll for the maneuver. It’s not canon but it’s helping reinforce the link.
When they ask me, “Why don’t I get a +1d for a linked test?” I point out they can get up to +3d for pursuing their three beliefs. This has also gotten them on-board with more actionable beliefs and not the broad, vague principles they started with.
p.