Hi!
The group I play with noticed that the game is not well suited for in-character roleplaying. It seems like procedures and rules are constantly getting in the way. Any tips on how to make Torchbearer a roleplaying game more than a procedural ressource management phases based game? I understant that its the point but in-character play seems almost non existant so far…Im wondering if some of you noticed and if your groups have tips for that…
Sincerely,
sameoldji
This is a common comment that sometimes pops up, and I can understand where it is coming from. However, I think there are a few things to discuss.
Roleplaying means a lot of different things. I doubt anyone could agree on what it is really, but each table has an idea of what they want. That’s all that really matters. If the group’s idea of roleplaying is the Critical Role improv-for-hours style, then TB is not a system that supports that.
Instead, its focus is on mounting pressure, the grind, and the dungeon crawl. It has a laser focus on these aspects. The grind is the engine that shapes meaningful choices and, in turn, creates opportunities for roleplaying. So, everything in the system supports roleplaying at every level, but it is focused on survival in the dungeon.
I believe Torchbearer encourages roleplaying because it is reinforced by mechanics (e.g., belief, creed, goal, instinct, help, wises, etc).
The mistake I see some groups make is that people just resort to the mechanics without giving the roleplaying its proper due. Nothing happens without roleplaying in Torchbearer. You can’t access mechanics without roleplaying, so in that regard, the sentiment is a little baffling.
So it is a different style of game. It is not meant to be D&D 5e or Gurps, which is just an empty shell filled with whatever people at the table want. But it presents a great opportunity for roleplaying desperate situations and difficult choices and learning how to survive together.
In my experience, the GM can only affect so much, but there are things to be done.
So, although I understand that some people focus on the procedural part of Torchbearer, that doesn’t mean it lacks roleplaying at all. Quite to the contrary, I think it is more about the group tuning into the balance between roleplaying and the natural beats of the adventure (the obstacles and the grind).
Could you unpack this for me? I’ve been roleplaying in-character no problem, so I’m not sure what you mean.
This take could not be more wrong; Torchbearer is a fantastic game for in-character roleplay. In fact, it requires roleplay in order to advance your character. I’m going to quote my own review of the game:
The roleplaying prompts [of Beliefs, Instincts, and Goals] are pretty obvious , but Torchbearer requires roleplaying in order to level up your character. Accomplishing your goal, using your instinct to help the party, playing into your belief, these things all reward the player with Fate and Persona. At the end of each session you will be asked, did you roleplay your belief? Did you make progress toward your goal? A skilled roleplayer will answer yes (with explanation) and receive a bounty of fate and persona to spend on rerolls and whatnot. You can only advance your character’s level by spending these rewards. A less-skilled roleplayer, or perhaps someone only interacting with the system mechanically, might not have roleplayed where they could have and answer in the negative and receive maybe only a point or two, or possibly none. It is in this way that the game trains its players: you must roleplay to succeed in this game.
Torchbearer is one of my favorite games, but it’s not easy to learn to play or run without demonstration. If everyone in your group is learning, please give the game a fair shake and trust that the rules are there to facilitate the story.
@Koch : This is such good advice in general. In the limited time I’ve messed with torchbearer, I’ve experienced some of the difficulty that @sameoldji has described, but this gives really good actionable advice and I can see how these are things I want to start implementing.
give it some time and help players get more accustomed. It might not be comfortable in the early sessions. Players might be unsure, “who is this character, truly?” GMs are also learning the procedures and making a habit of their role in the session.
I tend to look at both MG and TB through the lens of episodic television series with lite-weight connective tissue from one episode to the next or from one module to the next. Yes, relationships matter and BIGs will always be required, but the adventure modules might not link one to the next and may not hold importance in the wider setting. ofc, not always, but don’t self-flagellate if the deeper story doesn’t emerge to show an immense arc of heroism or villainy.
Each table group has been different as well. One group was quite pleased to be trudging through the grime and muck of the setting to get their rewards while another group wanted to be clean[-er] and [more] comfortable in the world while meeting and greeting NPCs linked to the adventuring impetus.
Also, some adventures will be more inclined to dialogue with NPCs than others. I ran Dread Crypt with no expectation that players would strike a conversation with the tomb guardians while I ran Shadow of the Horns with anticipation of players negotiating with goblins/hobgoblins and mediating issues between residents of the steadings. Each adventure calls for different measures of dialogue, which is good fodder for roleplay.
The grind and other mechanics can create a desire to optimise rather than roleplay; however, I find other mechanics remove that pressure.
In many games, whether intentionally or not, failing a test can stop a plot thread in its tracks, so there is a pressure to take the approach with the greatest chance of success and negotiate for favourable circumstances; whereas, the consequences/twist mechanics and broader “fail forward” approach that is baked into TB, mean that playing the character rather than the system never means hitting a wall.
I think it’s a matter of focus. We see procedures and mechanics (the Game), so the temptation is to get lost in those. These limitations are there to provoke creativity. Like Haiku. The form generates new and surprising things. Take a step back — there is a fruitful void.
Focus on the situation, the characters, their beliefs, wises, their raiment, and the narrative that emerges after a few sessions of play because of the procedures.
When I play Torchbearer I definitely get into character, describe my affectations, engage in dialogue in a way that maps back to what’s on my sheet, and am frequently surprised by the stories we are able to create. The game generates new and exciting situations to react to, and surprises and delights just as frequently as it challenges.
Talking “in-character” (i.e., acting) is a tiny/optional part of roleplaying as an activity. Unfortunately, groups like Critical Role and others have conned people into thinking playing RPGs is just improv theatre with the occasional roll of a die.
The only requirement is that the player is making meaningful decisions based on these five factors:
If you’re playing a game and making decisions based around those five factors, it’s an RPG. You’ll notice talking in a funny voice or writing elaborate back stories is not included in this list.