From my read of the book, it sounds like only magic-using classes - Elf, magician, and cleric - can use magic-making skills, like Arcanist and Ritualist. Has anyone played with the idea of multi-classing at all (or just beginner’s lucking Arcanist and Ritualist)? One of the things I loved about Mouse Guard is how any character could learn any skill. Does anyone have any thoughts about starting with a Dwarf or Warrior and later having him find a spellbook or holy symbol and start learning the corresponding magician or cleric skills and spells?
There is no prohibition in the RAW against anyone learning Arcanist or Ritualist. However, spell/prayer slots are earned as level benefits.
One simple way to implement multiclassing would be to allow people to mix and match level benefits from various classes, with the requirement that they must have all the starting skills of that class at the base level before being eligible for the level benefit.
You would probably also need to knock the multi-class level benefit back one level, to keep from having the “I take a C2 magician spell at level 3, and C2 elf spell at level 4…”
How would I use Ritualist and Arcanist without spell/prayer slots? Or how would I obtain them without being a magic-user?
Seems like Psyke’s idea is pretty solid mechanically. I have no idea what it does to the long term play, but was there really any pre-reqs to old-school multi-classing? I don’t remember any. Once you levelled, you were just like I’m going to start levelling Wizard.
I think you could skate with a new Level Benefit for each class called Multi-Classing, selecting it allows you to take a Level Benefit from the previous level from another class. Prayer/Spell slot and no Arcanist skill? Better watch the F out, DIY Hedge Wizard coming through, hope it relates to your Nature!
The real challenge here is in rationalizing selecting the benefit. What exactly did your character do, find, read, or otherwise act on to establish a large enough base of knowledge to draw from the other class? Could be some cool story/hooks in there.
As I think about it, what if you go back one step on the decision tree. What if you spend enough rewards to be eligible for selecting a Level Benefit, you can either pick a benefit from your current class (no extra steps) or opt to “pursue” a multi-class level that would allow you to pick level-1 benefit from another class. Be establishing it as a separate step, you could have a roll of some kind - another opportunity for players to choose how to hurt themself. Given the learning of new skills is based on your Nature, seems like this is a broader scenario of the same kind - struggling against your established habits and manners. Nature Roll with an Ob based on your “new” total levels?
I think you could use scrolls. You’d need to buy or find all your spells, and then duplicate them onto scrolls for each use.
Multiclassing and Dual Classing were features of AD&D not D&D. Humans could dual class, which meant stopping advancement in one class and starting another. Once you made the change, you could no longer advance your original class and you started at level 1 in your new class. Demihumans could multiclass, which involved splitting experience on each class. Effectively you halved your advancement rate but got the benefits of both classes and were able to take the better saving throw.
I don’t plan on supporting either in Torchbearer, but go ahead and hack!
No, you can only use a scroll if you already have the ability to cast a spell of that circle. For instance, a Level 4 Elf Ranger who took the Fearless level benefit would not be able to use a scroll with a second circle spell on it because he doesn’t have the ability to cast second circle spells.
“However, the spell caster must be capable of casting a spell of that circle.” Scrolls, page 3.
Dang! Well, in that case, I guess having the skill just lets you post to internet forums about the spell-author’s choice of techniques?
It does let you help! Also, ritualist allows you to perform rituals like marriages and funerals.
Talk about a dump-skill! I can become a “ritualist” for free online!
Oh snap! I just got taken to school on my actual D&D knowledge!
Yeah, except I’m wrong! I just found this (with no heading) on page 10 of Men & Magic, the first book of OD&D:
Changing Character Class: While changing class (for other than elves) is not recommended, the following rule should be applied: In order for men to change class they mast have a score of 16 or better in the prime requisite (see below) of the class they wish to change to, and this score must be unmodified. A Cleric with a “strength” of 15, for example, could not become a Fighting-Man. In any event Magic-Users cannot become Clerics and vice-versa."
OD&D also had multi-classing, though it wasn’t clearly explained until AD&D. In Men & Magic, only elves multi-classed. The OD&D text has resulted in one interpretation used in a PbP game I’m in where you get to decide each delve whether you get your experience as fighter or magic user.
I’m definitely curious to see what folks come up with for Torch Bearer multi-classing.
I would say that your first level is the only first level you get. You then buy advancement in whatever class you want, but you always start at level 2. So if you’ve spent 3 fate and 3 persona you’d be second level. When you spend an additional 3 and 3 (so a total of 6 and 6) you could take a second level perk from another class. I think this makes more sense than stealing high level perks from other classes without advancing through the ranks.
This approach would mean that a wizard can never use all weapons and armor, and that a non-wizard never gets as many arcane spells for their level as a wizard has. I’m okay with that because a person learns best when they are young, and this can represent that. The thing they really put time into first will always be their strongest point.
That’s an awesome approach. Very subtle in achieving a tilt towards your original class. I’m thinking about the classic Fighter Mage. If you spent your early life focused on the martial arts, you could wear armor and wield all kinds of weapons, but your magical training would suffer. Conversely, if you spent your time focused on the magic arts, then your body wouldn’t be as conditioned even though you might develop some of the advanced perks. I like it!
Simple hack to make a Fighter-Mage:
At 3rd level, a magician may opt out of their level benefit to learn a new weapon or gain the ability to wear light armor.
This may be done multiple times, once per level. This feature is only for Magicians. Warriors cannot learn to cast spells.
Fighter-Mages may take the Heart of Battle trait during Winter phase.
Simplest way to make a Fighter-Mage: Play an elf.