Permanent damage during conflict.

Mouse Guard Getting Started with Mouse Guard
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Thanks for all the help with my all my posts. Play 6 games total so far and feel like I’ve really got a hang of the game. Had a wicked custom conflict with Mice leading a wagon of supplies pulled by a salamander vs a steep dried up riverbed just as a thunderstorm started. Worked out great!

Anywaaaay,
During conflicts it’s disposition vs disposition, let’s say it’s a fight animal. 8 disposition vs 8 disposition.

3 Birds(young Kestrals) vs 3 mice.

In the opening roll player rolls Attack(6s) and the Kestrals roll Feint (No roll). This is an epic open to the fight, more than half the birds’ disposition is gone. Should the player be able to kill one of the birds with their description? If the players win the fight in the next roll then no big deal. However if the birds defend and get their disposition back up then story wise they are handicapped, but mechanically they are not.

So questions that will clarify this for me:

Should there be no permanent damage until the conflict ends? So like lot’s of cool moves and hitting of birds, but none are officially killed until we know they indeed lost. (Another example, team is guiding wagon of glass jars vs a tough journey. If I describe jars breaking after an attack, but they soon defend and have full disposition at the end. Now what?)

Or, say the player does kill one in his description, if the bird regain high disposition then… “whatev’s, it’s just a mechanical framework” so I just say the two remaining Kestrels fight all the harder. Or “GASP” what you thought was a dead Kestrel leaps back into the air!" (seems like the dead coming back to life would get old after awhile)

If a Kestrel is indeed killed early in description, would it now not add helper die to it’s team from that point forward? Talking mechanically, this is the most important question

Related side question, a friend tried running a game (I wanted to try playing as a mouse) and he favored lots (and lots) of combat. However in combat every time an enemy rolled a successful attack/feint he’d describe my mouse losing bits of tail/ear/fingers and whatnot. Not even at the completion of the conflict, but each tiny move. After a fight or two I don’t feel like I’d have any mouse left to play with! I mean a scar is cool, but I feel like I need my ears. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks super helpful people!

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First thought: If the situation was reversed (players feint and animals attack), would it be out of line for the game master to kill one of the player characters?

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I agree with Daniel’s first thought. The GM should not be killing PCs in the midst of a conflict, thus the players ought not be killing NPCs in their narration.

I feel there is some additional room for reviewing rules. Pg 130 starts the section about death and killing. First bullet: If you’re trying to kill an opponent, you’ve got to win …

I feel this shows the intent is that a conflict must be concluded in order to fulfill that goal (if it was a goal of the conflict).

In the case of cutting up ears, tails, legs, paws, and other narrative cuts, scrapes and bruises, I feel this is more of a group feel. It you don’t like the cadence of the wounds, speak up.

I see it this way, the narrative can have plenty of hitting, biting, scratching, burning, and other whatnot, but only at the end of the conflict can the Injured Condition be levied against a member of the conflict team. In the midst of the conflict, the condition cannot be gained; it must be saved for the compromise only. So, this leads to the question of what constitutes Injured; the play group has to find a comfort level everyone agrees to.

In addition, it might be best for a GM to take a soft touch. It is okay to say that the mouse gains the Injured Condition and perhaps what happened to cause it; however, allow the player to narrate and personify the injury. The player can decide if it becomes a visible scar, heals easily, shows a bruise, or is a broken bone. That leaves more room for a collaborative play experience.

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This is up to you as GM. Conflict is very flexible in this regard. Yes, if you allow him to kill off one of the birds, I don’t think it can contribute its helping die next turn.

Related side question, a friend tried running a game (I wanted to try playing as a mouse) and he favored lots (and lots) of combat. However in combat every time an enemy rolled a successful attack/feint he’d describe my mouse losing bits of tail/ear/fingers and whatnot. Not even at the completion of the conflict, but each tiny move. After a fight or two I don’t feel like I’d have any mouse left to play with! I mean a scar is cool, but I feel like I need my ears. What are your thoughts on this?!

I would not have enjoyed this. It shows a lack of imagination.