Question on the Armorer skill

I understand how skills work in compiling factors, as seen in the administrator example. Something is a bit unclear though:

The armorer skill’s factors ask to start counting on 1, 2 and 2. Does that mean that “Short and Quick” is Ob1 (since it is the first item of the list) or Ob2? I ask this because I’ve searched the forums over and over again and I have seen both things being said. Quite confusing.

On the subject of armor, is it possible for an Armorer to make flawless armor?
(example: Light armor that doesn’t have the Heavy trait)

Also, on topic of building missile weapons:
Should one assume that all missile weapons use the stats from the bow?
It comes with: Missile, Long Range and Hard to Defend.

Which brings me to another question: Is it a double standard?
I mean, suppose one succeeds in crafting a weapon with the factor “Hooked”. One could argue that it doesn’t receive the unwieldy trait like the ‘Hook and Line’, because the test was a success.
But building a missile weapon by this standard would be a bad decision, since a simple missile weapons is worse than a missile+long range +hard to defend.

So… I’m confused, can anyone help?

Howdy Blind Shooter. Some quick answers to your questions:

  1. It seems that “Short and Quick” would be OB 2. ( In this thread Luke states that a Deadly Missile weapon would be OB 9, as Deadly is OB 4 and Missile is OB 5 - )

  2. It isn’t possible to make flawless armour. Armour includes all the traits listed under their names. ( I asked the same thing a few weeks back in this thread - ).

  3. The bow has been made with both the “Missile” and the “Hard to Defend”. It isn’t clear how weapons get the short range or long range trait.

  4. When you make a “Hooked” weapon, you aren’t making a hook and line, so you do not get the unwieldy trait.

Thanks for the reply mate :slight_smile:

So it means that crafting Heavy Armor is harder than buying it - and there is no real advantage to crafting it, opposed to weapons where you can add and improve things.

I understand that in Mouse Guard, mice seldom go about with armor of any kind but…

Using Resources to buy it, it is an Ob4, using Armorer it is an Ob5.
In one case you risk losing one resource point or getting a condition.
In the other you risk getting crappier armor and a condition.

I guess that using Resources is (a bit) riskier and thus why the Ob is lower. Besides, one could always try to sell the armor resulted from the Armorer test if he/she doesn’t want it.
Which makes me think: How would one go about selling something? And what would that result in? Maybe a Circles test to see if you can find someone who is interested, a haggle test to try to sell it and should one succeed, increase Resources by 1?

I suppose that Long Range and Hard to Defend are characteristics of the Missile property, that would be the only reasonable explanation I can find - Although, some weapons mix things up. The dagger for example, has a paw-to-paw factor and the throw trait (although it is highly specific for it).

This might seem a bit too much “going all technical and forgetting the rp part” but one of my players really wants to craft stuff and so I want to be sure that I get it right.

Is “crafting stuff” built into his BIGs? And if not, why not?! Sounds like a great basis for doing stuff in the game!

Maybe dangle some carrots in front of the character… if he gets the special meteoritic iron away from the Apothecary in Bumblef*ck Village, then he can make special armor with a super trait (grants the “Fancy Schmancy” trait at lvl 1, or something, to borrow magic item ideas from one of Thor’s posts about Burning THAC0)… but the Apothecary needs it to make a cure for a disease that’s ravaging the countryside.

OR, the situation where the things you own begin to own you. Thieves try to steal the armor whenever the character isn’t wearing it, and so he has to wear it at inappropriate times or risk losing it.

I think that to raise Resources by 1 or something else ‘‘permanently’’ you would have to have some ongoing business. When my player’s characters once plundered a ravens nest I gave them a few bonus dice to Resources, to use as tools for resources tests, to symbolize that they had a defined bonus inout to their economy. That worked quite well, they could decide wether to spread it out over several tests or if they want to put it on one test.

Thanks guys, that is pretty helpful and gives plenty of good ideas. :smiley:

I only wish that the armorer skill was a bit clearer - while one can know how to craft using factors, the actual Ob of the weapons listed in the “Fighting Weapons” is a bit of a mistery - specially since some items listed there use factors that can’t actually be used with the Armorer skill. For instance, “Handy” isn’t anywhere in the Armorer factor list.

I suppose “Handy” is a staff-only factor… but if it isn’t, what if I wanted to have that plus the useful factor when making the weapon? Or simply, make the staff?

Useful is Ob3, Handy would be… maybe Ob2?
So Ob5 to make a Handy and useful… swordstaff? XD

What Ob would it be to make a staff?

Maybe I’m thinking too much and should just houserule this stuff.

Again, Missile factor is odd. We have no “range” factor and thus, a missile weapon can be drastically different. Example: Bow vs Sling.

You know why there’s no Staff listed for the Armorer? Because Armorers don’t make staves. Why not, you ask? Because you’re a mouse living on the floor of a forest. Staves abound. A Nature check for foraging should produce one with little trouble.

The precedent for this comes directly from the comics.


True. I was interested in the factor for it though, and using it for other items - I suppose handy is a staff only factor then, no worries.
The Armorer skill got me thinking of all kinds of cool possibilities - if I know my players, I’m pretty sure at least one of them will be wanting to build custom equipment, ‘cool stuff’.
Quite honestly, I love how it works. It is a very simple, very straightforward crafting system.

Luke, how about the missile factor? Are all “Missile” weapons built equal to a bow? A sling wouldn’t need an armorer and a crossbow could simply be different flavor, same mechanics, so… “missile” factor = bow?

Slings are tough. While they require some specialized knowledge to build, you certainly don’t need to be a trained craftsman to construct one. Maybe use Survivalist and the “jury-rigging tools” factor.

The mice in the comics use bows, thus there are no crossbows.

How an Armorer gets metal to make weapons and armor? How Smiths get metal to make craftmice tools? It would break the game if you devide the Armorer obstacle between a Resources test and an Armorer test, like you do in Burning Empires?

Yes. Metal and coal counts as supplies for the test. There’s a neat little rule for that.


Did you mean coal or charcoal for making metallic weapons and armour?

Please consider the following:-
Charcoal is mined from burnt trees, not underground or on surface mines, if they are present in the mouse terrorities.
Charcoal does not ruin metal if the metal contacts it, but coal does (Iron sulphate).

Simon Burling

PS A sling or other cloth based guard equipment eg (padding for armour or possibly light armour itself) could be made by a weaver, assuming that weavers covers makng organic clothing rather than just weaving.

Added text is underlined.

In the context of Alej’s question, does it really matter? You’re playing a mouse…

But thanks for the clarification.