Quick question on Helping and getting credit for skill tests.

Hi all. New to the forum, new to the BW oeuvre in general, and I wanted to clarify something about when one can check off successes or failures for skills.

I can infer from BW/BE conversations that characters who help other characters on their tests can get a pass/fail tic (as appropriate) on their sheet for doing so.

Is that also true in Mouse Guard?

I believe the answer is yes; the text says:

[paraphrase] “Anyone who helps a mouse with a test enjoys the benefits of a successful text, or suffers somewhat similarly from failure.” [/paraphrase]

From that, I can infer that, if you help out your Pathfinding partner with your Scout skill, his success or failure would in turn grant you a Pass or Fail tic on your own sheet.

Would I be correct to infer that?

Is there any place in the book that states that explicitly?

Nope. Read on. :slight_smile:

The part you paraphrased has to do with the benefits and penalties derived from the outcome of the test itself, not as a check for a skill. In other words, if you help in a test and it fails, the GM can make the main roller Tired and apply a lesser penalty to you, also, because you helped (and thus had a stake into the outcome). So you might end up Angry, or Hungry/Thirsty.

Helpers do not gain checks from skill/stat tests; they only share in the outcome of tests, both positive and negative.

edit: I just read every section relevant to tests, skills and advancement, and I did not see explicit mention of helpers not being able to log P or F. However, this subject has come up before.

Right, which I understood in that context… this other thing was just confusing.

It all stems from someone talking about BW and saying something like “and since I helped on the test, I got a Pass tick-mark”, and I thought to myself “Bwah? Is that in MG too? Did I miss it?”

And then I read through, and couldn’t QUITE find it… good to know it’s not because I’m blind, but because it’s not there.

Ignore the Burning Wheel players. They are demented and preach heresies. Mouse Guard is its own self-contained game with only superficial similarities to Burning Wheel.

I’ll be similarly demented, eventually, but I’ll be sane and Mouseguardian first. Thanks!

One more question about Helping: Is there any limit to how often a character can Help another?

Let’s say you’re in a conflict, and you have four mice on a team (I know it should be more like two teams of 2, but bear with me…). Every ‘round’, there’s one mouse who isn’t going to get an action. Is there any rule that says he can’t Help all three of the actions for that round (… aside from the logic of the situation, or the facts of the scene)?

And if there is such a rule, where is it?

Hell, for that matter, is there anything that prohibits the same basic thing on a team of three, such as:

  • Mouse1 takes his action. Mouse2 and 3 help.
  • Mouse2 takes her action. Mouse1 and 3 help.
  • Mouse3 takes his action. Mouse1 and 2 help.

In my reading, I’d understood that anyone can help, and I had seen no limit on how often one could help (I just went back and looked)… but then, I saw someone in a forum thread imply that there were limits to how often and/or how many times, per conflict, a mouse could help another mouse. So now I’m wondering.

(Actually, I half suspect they were speaking with BW knowledge that doesn’t apply, but I’d rather ask than assume.)

This all leads to other weird questions like “If I helped my companion with his roll, and he tied his opponent and has to go with a Tiebreaker roll, can I also help him with the tiebreaker roll?”

(In the example given I’d say no, because I’ve already added a helping dice to that specific test and can’t double-dip, but that’s just my opinion - I can’t recall anything specific allowing or prohibiting helping on Tiebreakers. Again, if there is a passage that makes this clear - if only with implied logic - please point it out.)

You’re only limited by the three conditions on p. 93, and the specifics laid out on p. 94-95.

Nope, no rule that I’ve seen. Every mouse on a team can help every other mouse on that team as per the usual help rules.

I’m pretty sure you can’t help with a tie-breaker, but good question.

From my crumb of experience, the average mouse needs all the help it can get.