Range and Cover. Moving then shooting and a question of order

Burning Wheel Subsystem Advice and Guidance
1

Hey guys!

Just been reading through the R&C section of the book and got a few questions. For the most part I get the gist but there’s a few things that confuse me and I just want to check how it all works.

So early on in the section (p409) it says that you always shoot after determining the result of the maneuver test. “Move then Shoot” it says. In most cases this will make sense. My team wins a closing maneuver and moves from out of range to extreme, then I spend additional successes getting my best archers to shoot. Easy.

A few pages later (p413) under charge it says that when you charge in your opponents get to shoot “before you close in”. So if I was to charge at my opponent moving from their extreme range to their optimal range they shoot BEFORE I move right? So they would shoot me at Ob3 for the extreme range. I think I’ve got this right as it explicitly states that they get to shoot before my charging team moves in.

But what about Hold (p414)? It says that when Holding my team always gets a free shot whether I win and lose and also says that my team get to close in or withdraw again regardless of the maneuver result. However, unlike charge it doesn’t specify whether I shoot before or after my team has moved in. Assuming charge is the exception and all other maneuvers go “Move then Shoot”, I guess that I use my free hold shot after my opponents have made their move. Am I right here?

This brings me to the example at the end of the Field Maneuver section, specifically to a section on p419. In this example an Orc has scripted Hold and the Elf has scripted Close. The Elf wins the manuever by a margin of two success. The next bit confuses me so I’ll write it out for clarity.

"He [The Elf] wins the test and moves from optimal range to too close to shoot. However, the orc scripted a hold so he also gets a free shot at optimal range. This means both sides shoot again"

This confuses the heck out of me for many reasons. Firstly, it implies that BOTH players are shooting before movement happens. The Elf has scripted to move from optimal to too close yet shoots before he makes that move. Also, and here’s the weird bit, the Orc has miraculously gone from extreme to optimal range without really doing anything. Sure the Elf is moving towards him but if the elf is too close to shoot then surely the orc is also too close to shoot. I made a previous post a few months ago questioning an example and it looked like then the example was wrong. Is that the case here or am i missing a few vital things?

Also - last question now - where does it say explicitly that each team member can only shoot once per volley? It says that you can only spend actions to shoot once but under Free Shots it says, “you can do them them in addition to your other actions. They are considered to be taken after other actions including aiming”. This seems to imply that even if we’ve shot we can shoot again with a free shot. Am i getting that wrong and you can definitely only shoot once per volley?

Anyway cheers and apologies for the long post!!

EDIT I’m a complete idiot. I just reread the too close to shoot and last ditch shot sections and it’s basically all there. I guess I still have queries on the order of shooting in a hold maneuver and also just clarification on if you can ever shoot more than once per volley

2

[b]Taking a Shot - Page 409

[/b]

You can spend one success per member of your team to give that character an opportunity to shoot…You may only shoot once per volley.

As for Hold, you don’t move in. You don’t move at all. Once you resolve the maneuver, you can shoot. I don’t see anything about your team getting to close or withdraw after the Hold is resolved. Do you have a page #?

3

When you hold, the opposing team always gets to move in or withdraw (assuming that’s what they scripted), regardless of success on the field maneuvers roll.

Generally, you hold if:
[ul]
[li]You want to get in one or two shots before your opponent closes to melee or quits the field[/li][li]you’re protected by fortifications your foe has to breach or overcome before it can reach you[/li][/ul]

4

Yes the confusion is about the order of things when holding. I get that you, the holding team, doesn’t move but the other team might do. The question then boils down to do you, the holding player, shoot the moving team at the range they were at the start of the volley or the end of the volley.

Example: I hold and my player withdraws which will take them from my Extreme range to Out of Range. Do they move to Out of Range and then I shoot (and obviously I can’t hit them now) I do I get to pick them off at Extreme range before they run away?

5

As per Range and Cover Procedure on page 404-405 (particularly Choose Maneuvers, Adjust Range and Play Actions) you always roll for maneuvers, then adjust range and then play actions (like shooting), with two exceptions:
[ul]
[li]A Charge as you previously noted[/li][li]The Last Ditch Arrow (see page 416).[/li][/ul]

Example: I hold and my player withdraws which will take them from my Extreme range to Out of Range. Do they move to Out of Range and then I shoot (and obviously I can’t hit them now) I do I get to pick them off at Extreme range before they run away?

The answer depends on what the weapons in question are. Check the My Range Is Longer than Your Range table on page 411. For the sake of argument, let’s say you both have crossbows. Then yes, if you’re both at Extreme Range and they Withdraw and you Hold, you will not get to shoot before they run away.

But that’s not universally true. For instance, say that you are armed with elven bows and your opponent has crossbows. When you start the volley both sides are at extreme range. Consulting the table on 411, they’ll withdraw to out of range, but the elven bows will still be at extreme range. You would still get to shoot.

If it were the other way around – you have the crossbows and your opponent has the elven bows – they’ll withdraw to out of range and you’ll be out of range too.

Make sense?