Hey, so I picked up a tube of ubiquity dice, and I sure wouldn’t mind using them for myself when I host my Torchbearer games (I understand many folks enjoy rolling large numbers of dice, but I prefer smaller pools).
Now, as far as I can make out so far, it looks as though the only real mechanical/probablistic issue involved would be any application of the Reroll 6 rule.
But before I even pretend to try and work out whether there’s any means of using ubiquity dice in place of d6’s, I’m wondering:
Besides the use of Fate for Luck, are their any other applications of the Reroll 6 rule in the game?
And as kindofa secondary follow-up question, this one is for Thor: is it possible for you to speculate on the potential likeliness of future Torchbearer supplements introducing any BW Shade-like mechanics to Torchbearer? (because that would also ruin any chance of using ubiquity dice)
Neat. As far as I can recall you only reroll 6’s when you spend Fate points to do so. Though it’s 1 of only 2 ways to use Fate points and the other relies on your wises, so you might have trouble spending enough Fate points to level up if you don’t have the reroll 6 option.
Thanks for confirming, much appreciated!
Ok - so since Denizens do not ever use Fate (correct?), and if there are no other GM-procedures which invoke “SFX” on the natural probabilities of a rolled dice pool (assuming standard 50/50 odds of success per-die) - then it looks like I might actually be able to use these as GM at least.
I just couldn’t offer them as a possibility to any Players at the table. (well, unless they don’t have any Fate they might want to spend after a roll)
Though it’s 1 of only 2 ways to use Fate points and the other relies on your wises, so you might have trouble spending enough Fate points to level up if you don’t have the reroll 6 option.
Yeah, I was a bit bummed when it dawned on me that I wouldn’t be able to use those cool dice afterall, due to this one very central rule.
Then I figured, well maybe if Fate is the only application of the Reroll 6 rule, then at least the problem is highly contained; gives me something to mull over in the back of my mind for fun and as a sort of logic or game-design puzzle:
- can I achieve an alternative and more-or-less functionally-equivalent ‘Fate for luck’ replacement effect?
( of course if later TB supplements are published which throw Shade-shifting-esque rules into the mix (Shade 3: Master Level!, Shade 2: Immortal Level! or somesuch) - then the idea becomes way less interesting because it just can’t work unless each die has 50/50 odds )
( admins: sorry! If this is getting too hacky for Adventurer’s Essentials by all means close or move thread to Hacks and Expansions )
Option off the top of my head: 3 successes let you roll another die.
Problem: this doesn’t let you reroll nearly enough dice, because there’s always the roll where you get four 6s, or the roll where your 6 keeps exploding, and those are the swings that make for epic results.
So that wouldn’t work.
Also, keep in mind that the rules for help, and also for conditions and gear/weapons, involve some back and forth of single dice. This would be mainly a problem for players, however.
Thanks CarpeGuitarrem and Bobo for the input; considering a bit, I think the following would ‘work’ while maintaining “close’ish-enough” parity to the original probabilities. This works because - as CarpeGuitarrem pointed out - any success has a 1/3 chance of being a 6, and thus re-rollable.
When a Test is called for, the ubiquity dice are rolled and successess determined as normal. If you decide to expend a Fate for luck:
- Pick up and roll a number of D6 equal to your current success total. Any of those dice with a resulting face value of 5 or 6 are considered a ‘lucky success’. Add these lucky successes to your total, then roll them again, this time proceeding with the Reroll 6 rule and repeating until there are no more 6s to reroll.
Here’s a slightly different take which has subtly different effects from the above:
When a Test is called for, the ubiquity dice are rolled and successess determined as normal. If you feel you need extra successes:
- Pick up and roll a number of D6 equal to your current success total. Any of those dice with a resulting face value of 5 or 6 are considered ‘lucky’. You may now spend a Fate for luck to roll these lucky dice using the Reroll 6 rule, repeating until there are no more 6s to reroll.
Obviously they both intrinsically suffer from the fact that they are not RAW. I don’t expect many people would want to adopt ubiquity dice if it means adding a house rule to the game.
But otherwise, as far as the logistics/probabilities of either of those two rejiggered Fate for Luck procedures go, they appear to be well enough in line with the normal results from what I can tell.
Not trying to advocate for this, though I may experiment with it at the table sometime - because I’d prefer to generally roll significantly smaller dice pools, which the ubiquity dice do really well.
#2 makes more sense to me. Making them spend a Fate point with a risk of getting nothing out of it seems harsh.
This occurred to me as well, but - I think - the standard Fate for Luck rule more or less offers a similarish potential of risk, right? I mean, you can spend your Fate for luck to reroll those 6s from your originating Test, just to have those rerolled dice turn up as scoundrels - you’ve just spent a Fate point but got nothing out of it.
Somehow, I get this feeling that option #1 is possibly slightly more powerful than the standard RAW. However option #2 does offer the Player a sense of greater safety; but then it requires that extra confirmation roll which doesn’t do anything other than identify how many dice you get to start rerolling. (while #2 adds successes immediately for those initial values of 5 or 6.)
I’ll hit anydice later on when I have the time, and will calculate the average results for each of the three procedures (raw, #1, and #2).
It might turn out that #1 has slightly higher initial risk with slightly greater payoff, while #2 has slightly lesser risk with slightly lesser payoff - at least that’s my current intuition.
( by the way, I like where you’re going with the Horrible Hack: Simple Man’s Traits, Checks, and Camp spark, I continue to watch with interest! )
I like that! Your use of the “Lucky Dice” rule is very clever, and I dig it immensely.