Forgive me for intruding in this discussion, and this is my post of deflowerment, so forgive any obvious idiocy.
So I absolutely hate tracking things like practice. I’d also love to see a practice system that allowed a player to accumulate dice against an ob equivalent to the lowest ob needed for the test. So, if practicing to raise a B4 oratory sill and seeking a difficult test, you’d be rolling vs an OB of 4.
So the problem I have is how to even more simply accumulate dice v. time spent practicing. As I’ve only just begun thinking about this, I haven’t a solution, but the merit of my general method is that it allows for all the usual BW dice mechanics to improve the roll. Failure could provide some interesting complications, such as a false sense of accomplishment, think Daniel using the crane move and getting his ass handed to him in Karate Kid II.
Is this worth pursuing, or am I the only lazy bastard who hates logging practice even with the simplified rules proposed?
Hi there! Welcome to the forums. We’re glad to have you. However, we ask that you don’t resurrect old threads. If you want to comment on a thread that has been dormant for a while, start a new thread and link to the old one.
You’d need some way to manage the passage of time. Beginners can rapidly improve in skill, yet master of a skill can take years of time and effort. Any easy way to do that might be to use multiples of the basic time to train tables to earn your tests. I’m not sure how it would work.
Are you suggesting in your post that only successful rolls earn the test, that is a successful roll earning the desired result [a check for skill increase] and a failure earning a complication instead?
The nice thing about the existing improvement system is that it rewards players for doing things that are beyond their capabilities (Difficult and Challenging tests) during play, which results in a good mix of failures while the character is striving to achieve their objectives. This is different from a failed skill learning roll, which may lead to interesting complications, but not the kind of difficult choices that I like in play.
Are you suggesting in your post that only successful rolls earn the test, that is a successful roll earning the desired result [a check for skill increase] and a failure earning a complication instead?[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, I think that you’d get the check regardless, but failure would bring a complication.
Let’s be clear, this is an idea purely out of my ass with zero play testing, just responding to paperwork, which I dislike intensely. yeah, I am that lazy. smile I’m also blind, and having to track even more crap is annoying.
BTW, I apologize for the necro-thread reply, failed to notice the date.
Hmmm, I do not mean replacing the tests gained in play, this was only intended as a suggestion for getting around what would be to me buzz-killing paperwork surrounding practicing.
Unless I’m greatly misunderstanding the practice rules, you just say your character is spending the amount of time required to earn the test, make sure that amount of game time has elapsed, then log the test. The only paperwork required is logging the amount of time you’ve spent practicing something. I’m not sure how accumulating dice helps keep track of anything.
Alternate practice rules version 1: Use Mouse Guard’s Winter Session rules. Log one test for practice during the winter.
Alternate practice rules version 2: When there is downtime, like when another character is healing, and a character wants to practice test Will against the obstacle of the test needed for the skill. If successful, the character logs a test for advancement. If failed, the character drinks away his troubles during the downtime. One test per downtime.
Do you see this Will Test also counting towards advancement? Normal rules suggest so, it would need an exception not to. I do not see recording it as advancement as a big issue since they need to risk the unlikeliness of success of a Difficult Will Test. I am just curious what you envisioned.
EDIT: To riff on your idea, maybe for some Skills a Resource Test is more appropriate? For equipment. Or Circles for finding a teaching resource. To spice things up and not lean so heavily on one ability, so the potential double-dip becomes even less an issue.
Not sure this is required. Certainly not for when using Will to Test. They do not get the double-dip for gaining a Routine Test (unless there is some reason for sizable situational penalties, because Routine means nothing to Stat advancement, ever) and they still have to hit an Ob 1. EDIT: Not required and runs up against the KISS principle, which is the aim here.
As for the former, are you suggesting some sort of Ob modification, that I cannot grok the details of? Or just saying “you need a minimum of 2 weeks to even try train with the easiest, 6 weeks for moderate, and 3 months for hard”?
You may be right about the minimum Ob not being necessary. The first exponent that needs Ob 3 for its routine test is B5, and that doesn’t require Routines to advance!
Some examples:
You have B4 Sword, and you want a Routine test. The highest Routine Ob for B4 is Ob 2. Sword is an “easy” attribute to practice (being a martial skill) and so you need an Ob 2 Will test that takes you (2 x 2) 4 weeks.
If you wanted a Difficult test for Sword it would be an Ob 3 Will test that takes 6 weeks. Challenging, an Ob 5 Will test that takes 10 weeks.
If you had a B3 Sorcery and wanted a Routine practice test, it would be an Ob 1 Will test that takes 3 months. (Ob 1 is the highest Routine ob for a B3 skill, and Sorcery is a “hard” skill.)
If you have a B6 Sword skill and you want a difficult test, it would be an Ob 5 test that take 10 weeks.
The_Tim points out that logging the Will test makes this procedure really weird for Will tests! If you pass, you get two tests! If you fail, you still get one. Whee!
Not logging the Will test seems cleaner (although it’s still an exception to the normal rule, but there you go).
Ahhh, now I see what you were doing there with time. I do not much care for it, FTW, but I understand it now.
Besides the 3 months leading to some times even longer time than RAW training, it all seems rather complicated and my gut tells me would put the choice towards even more lengthy downtime (in-game time and play time) OR abandonment of training altogether. shrug
What I was getting at here. But I am not sure it would be that much an issue, especially if you mixed up a little what the Test was. Circles and Resources (the later not even earning advancement on failure) are usually thought of less as ‘freebies’. I am not convinced it would be that much of an issue though, given the odds you get for really high Will and being limited to whatever will get you a D/C in Will. Usually Training is used more as an opportunity to fill in something missing, so in practices players have relatively limited choices.
