Social Skills Tests

Sounds like you don’t want it bad enough. :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s what Circles is for.

You’ll only have to beat up a few kids before you can graduate to old folks and vagrants, and then you’re up and away!

Oh, and the part about Circles is also awesome. If these characters want to try walking down a slightly darker path, an excellent way to actually get checks towards intimidation and skills for roughing people up is to circle up someone to do it for you, but then help them do it. Just a little quick jab or a kick in the shins to get things going… :slight_smile:

Well that depends on the skill. Getting help with Persuasn or Falsehood will be easy enough.

But I think I’m the only character who opened Soothing Platitudes, Ugly Truth and (maybe) Etiquette. All of them are only exponent 2, which caused my original question. I used Falsehood as my example because it was easiest to example up.

But this thread provided plenty of answers for me (and the rest of my group) to know how to get routine tests for those skills even outside of Dual of Wits. So that question has been answered. :slight_smile:

Thanks again,

j

That Circles idea is very interesting. Thank you both for suggesting it. Don’t think I would have thought of it on my own.

j

True on help, Luke. At least for most skills.

Won’t work on all of them, though? For instance, I think I’m the only one who opened Soothng Platitudes. (Folks can only help if they have the same skill, right?) Fortunately this thread has given me plenty of ideas on how to advance that skill even without help from my friends. :slight_smile:

j

No, in BW you can help so long as you roleplay the help and the GM approves it.

Do not go down the Obstacle. Give them Advantage dice.

Well… I kinda disagree, because unless they have a fairly high exponent, then the only way advance Persuasion/Falsehood/etc is to use it in Versus tests or in Duel of Wits. This is especially true for things like Falsehood and Command, where you can only use them for Incite and/or Obfuscate (or Dismiss, now :P).
This led to a feel (at least with the guys I game with) that either you maxed out e.g. Falsehood or Command, or you did not take them at all.

So instead I try to set an obstacle on the difficulty table at the start of the book. “How difficult would this person be to lie to?” and give advantage dice based on the believeability of the lie.

I only want to point out that Alejandro’s suggestion of adding dice would in effect reduce the difficulty of tests and allow for routine tests.

With Helping Dice, Linked tests, and advantage dice, low-skilled characters (ie, B2) can easily rake in enough dice to turn an Ob 3 (your typical Will Exponent) into a Routine test. SK, are your players engaging these options?

And I just want to say that once I was in your camp. I thought it was ridiculously hard to use Social skills versus that fixed Will Ob. But I’ve played it enough now to get over this reaction and realize it’s fairly easy!

Why not just be sure to add a good smattering of gullible, fearful and/or weak-willed people among your NPCs?

Sure. You can do that. You can do whatever you want. But remember that you are trying to do something that is already in the rules. “How difficult would this person be to lie to?” is determined by the Will exponent of the victim. If the player comes with a good lie give her advantage dice. But if it is a poor lie increases the obstacle accordingly.

Guys, I have been playing BW for… 7 years now. I am aware of all these options :slight_smile: I acknowledge the points though.

I just don’t like the fact that almost all skills have a full range of obstacles and a number of social skills do not. Most other skills range from 1-10 in obstacles… Social skills seem to range from 3-6. Will B2 is supposed to be very low, very antilsocial. Will B1 is a mentally disabled person. While these kind of guys do pop up in the games, they aren’t very often the opposition. So… my reasoning is that all other skills have this full range of obstacles, why shouldn’t social skills?

I understand the reasoning behind the rules, which I think in part is to encourage the use of the Duel of Wits mechanics because it is so hard to “just” convince something with e.g. a persuasion test, and we do use that. If believing the lie has major consequences for the character, the persuasion test is for a big deal, etc, obstacle defaults to Will + extra ob for beliefs/traits/instincts. It works for me and my group.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions guys :slight_smile:

Social skills totally have a range of 1-10…as long as you’re talking about versus tests. Because of course then the other side can get advantage dice, help, FoRKs, linked tests, blah blah blah.

You’re just talking about straight-against-their-Will rolls, which are “supposed” to be hard but, honestly, I’d much rather go up against an Ob3 or Ob4 normal person than a social monster surrounded by helpful mandarins, on their home turf, where I might actually have to give them something if I lose. Yeesh.

How often do you actually do vs. Will social tests in practice, Alexander? Maybe you overuse it? I mean I have no idea at all, just speculating here. The only time you should be rolling vs. Will is if the other side literally has nothing better to do than say “no”, and the GM still thinks it’s a suitable task. That situation is rare as hen’s teeth in our games here.

That’s a good question… not that often I think. I wouldn’t say it’s as rare as Hen’s Teeth. Actually came up last session where first someone tried to get a craftman to let him stay in his shop and watch his work. The craftsman had a will of… 4 or 5 I think. That became an ob 3 Persuasion test. That obstacle was taken from the difficulty table. I figured it should be difficult to convince him of a relatively minor, but irritating thing.

Then another player tried to mollify the craftman and put him back into a good mood, as the failure result was that the craftsman let the guy stay, but he was angry and this anger was infecting the object he was making (for an enchantment). The Soothing Platitudes test was against his will, so Ob 5 I think.

Another recent example was when a character wanted to convince a smuggler that she should join their side in an upcoming conflict. We didn’t really have time/desire for a Duel of Wits, so it became a Persuasion test vs. her Will +1 Ob (it would be a big deal). That made it Ob 5. She was already helping them, for some cash, but they wanted her as an Ally.

EDIT: So… about 1/session or so, depending on the game. Our current one has a lot of social interaction. At least on DoW per session I think.

What about Ob penalties / advantages being applied to social skill tests? That could theoretically expand the Ob range from 1 - 10. I know there aren’t explicit examples of social Ob penalties or advantages, but it’s a general mechanic that can be used to modify any die roll if the narrative calls for it.

In our games social tests versus Will pop up quite often. I don’t tend to go to Duel of Wits unless the stakes are worth it. I’d much rather keep the story clipping along.

If I’m not mistaken, advantage can never lower the actual obstacle, only add an advantage die. And it is not possible to gain more than one advantage die for a test.

P. 28 says that the player may only lobby for 1D of advantage. The GM is free to award more. But p. 28 also says that the GM should not award more than 2 for any roll.

Thanks, didn’t know how that slipped past me.