The Mail Mouse Mission

Mouse Guard Missions
1

We played a fun, short mission and I thought I’d post it. Someone might use it and I’d welcome any pointers :). Plus, it was purposefully planned to be a cliffhanger, so pointers might help me plan the second half :slight_smile: We are newbies to Mouse Guard and role playing. I find it hard to remember everything and our games are very long (often 4 hours) when we actually have battles and I keep having to look stuff up. I purposefully planned no battles so that it would run smoother. It took us about 1 1/2 hours. There was no Players Turn. They didn’t use their traits against themselves. We aren’t very good at that yet.

We are in the middle of winter, but I made it a mild winter. I only had two players. One (Forsythe - age 46) had taken grain to Elmoss and was returning to Lockhaven for the winter via Ivydale. In Elmoss he found 18 year old Guard, Moira, and she asked to travel back to Lockhaven with him. So, their “mission” was to return to Lockhaven. (I’m trying to set us up for our first Winter’s Session in Lockhaven.) Forsythe’s goal was to return to Lockhaven and practice mapmaking along the way. Moira’s was to return SAFELY to Lockhaven and have fun. In the end, she had not gotten to do several things she wanted to do, so she decided she had not met her goal of having fun. :slight_smile:

As a short but heavy snow storm whipped up, they saw a mound ahead covered with blue and something shiny. They had to make it through the snow (test) to find a dead guardmouse with a sword and a mail bag. The blue cloak had a beautiful ivy clasp and the sword was etched with ivy. They didn’t recognize him though. They had to look for shelter (test) and test healer to see how much they could determine about the death. (No signs of struggle or blood or anything.) They had to decide whether to take him with them to Lockhaven or bury him (test). The ground was too hard to bury. All the while, they thought they saw something moving in the trees. Eventually they decided they had to abandon the corpse, but take the mailbag to Lockhaven.

About that time a mouse (Tedd) came out of the woods claiming to be the corpse’s (Tarnack’s) friend. Tarnack was going to take Tedd to Lockhaven with him because Tedd had always wanted to be a guardsmouse and while he was sure they wouldn’t accept him, Tarnack still said he could come spend the winter in Lockhaven with him. But, as they were preparing to leave Ivydale, with the mail, Tedd took ill. Tarnack left. Tedd recovered quickly and followed, only to find Forsythe and Moira with Tarnack’s dead body. He was following them to determine if they were friend or foe. But he begged them not to leave the body behind. (And he also offered to carry the mail bag, which Forsythe and Moira, suspicious of Tedd, would not let him do.)

After a day of travel and a night of sleep, Forsythe who intended to keep watch all night but fell asleep because he was tired from a failed test earlier, woke to find Tedd and the bag missing. They tested pathfinder and easily found Tedd’s trail in the snow. He was stranded in the middle of a riverlet with the mailbag. A failed test to build a boat left Forsythe on a raft, also stranded with Tedd. Moira failed an attempt to shoot an arrow with string onto the raft and pull it loose. (The string broke.) A test of Health (strength) succeeded in Tedd and Forsythe jostling the raft free. Tedd confessed that he thought if he could be the one to show up with the mailbag at Lockhaven (alone) they might consider him a hero of sorts and look favorably upon him. That is why he ran off. (He’d gone in the wrong direction and gotten lost because he was a town mouse with little sense of direction.) Forsythe assured him the guard was not going to look favorably on him, but did allow that Tedd could be the one to tell Tarnack’s wife, Lola, the bad news.

They continued on to the gates of Lockhaven and were let in. Forsythe told the story to the gatekeeper. The gatekeeper had never heard of Tarnack, which was not necessarily unusual. He threw back the cloak to take a look and said, “That’s not Tarnack. That’s Sloane!!” At this point, Forsythe and Moira realize that Tedd has disappeared and the game ended. :wink:

Now, what I know and the players suspect is that there is something in the mail bag that Tedd was trying to retrieve. He never met Tarnack/Sloane, he made that up. In fact, he had actually poisoned him in Ivydale and was tracking him, waiting for him to die. He had insisted they take Tarnack/Sloane’s body with them in the hopes of simply encumbering them enough to give him a chance at the mail bag. I don’t know what part 2 will be yet. I have to figure out what the letter says, something about a plot or trouble somewhere. It has to be big enough for Tedd to kill over. And they will have to hunt for and find Tedd in Lockhaven. And I haven’t decided if the plot is in Lockhaven or if someone was just sending to Lockhaven for assistance. Also, I had hoped to do a Winter Session where mice grow up and all, so I don’t really want them to spend the winter outside the gates saving mousedom. It has to be something that can wait till after winter or be dealt with in Lockhaven. Or I can send some imaginary guard mice to take care of it and grow up our regulars.

2

:slight_smile: Finally figured out the rest of the mission. My daughter was furious with me for the cliffhanger and especially that I had never intended to finish it, because I didn’t even know the plot in the letter…

We are going to play today in our first Winter Session. We are currently mid-winter. My plan is to play a mid-winter session as per the book and if they want to pursue the mystery from their last mission, they can. If they don’t, I will save it for the next mission after Winter Session. The premise is this…

This is the first half of the Winter Session. Forsythe and Moira just arrived with a mail bag and a mystery. Guardmouse Sloane was found dead on the road and a missing mouse named Tedd has something to do with it. Moira won’t be playing with us, but Xena and Pico will, so I’ll have to work them into the story. The goal of this session is to accomplish Winter Session goals. However, if the mice wish to investigate… Gwendolyn must be told. (maybe Circles 3? But eventually you’re bound to find Gwendolyn.) The mail must be read (Potential angry mouse when his mail has been read - conflict) and the letter found (Going to see if there is a skill or wise to test for deciphering codes).

A letter to the Apiarist’s assistant, Maxwell, says “The Ivy is green in the garden. It’s time for the bees to sting.” But this letter is suspicious because ivy is dead in the winter and bees hibernate. [Alternative to finding the letter - Tedd could be spotted and interrogated. (Circles ? depends on if I want them to go this route or not :wink: The situation is that there is enough money saved in Ivydale now to sue for independence from Lockhaven (like Texas). The plot is cooked up by the Governor of 15 years and his magistrate of 20 (the brains). They want to hire their own guard for protecting grain transportation.

The Magistrate died unexpectedly and the governor chickens out on the plot and hires a thug (Tedd) from the tavern to get him out of this mess. Tedd is a crooked mouse from Wolfepoint (Xena’s hometown), hired to retrieve the bag. He told Tedd to get the letter at all costs (he didn’t anticipate murder). Maxwell, the apiarist’s assistant, was supposed to give Gwendolyn a relatively slow-acting poison, showing the ineffectiveness of the Guard in keeping her safe, and then give her the antidote. The Apiarist would be blamed and Maxwell (not good enough for promotion) would relocate all the bees to Iydale, his home, further increasing Ivydale’s riches. It is a half-baked plot by greedy, bored mice.

Out of curiosity, I’ve seen the terms “PC” and “NPC” used. Are those something like Players’ Characters and Non-Players’ (GM’s) Characters?

3

I doubt anyone will see this before I have to play it, and if not, I’ll learn in retrospect. So, I’m thinking that my first Obstacle I’m kind of calling “uncover the plot”, which sounds more like a mission. What I mean though is that they have 2 ways of doing it. I think they can use archivist with a difficulty of 3 to find and decipher the correct letter and message. Does that sound good?

If they decide instead to hunt down Tedd, or if they fail at deciphering and hunt down Tedd… either way, I think they will end up either interrogating Tedd or the Apiarist and/or his assistant.

An interrogation would be a Conflict, right? I would think for interrogation one might use Persuader or Deceiver which would be a versus test against the NPC’s Persuader, Deceiver or Will. Probably not persuader except maybe for the Apiarist’s Assistant if he was really dedicated to the cause. So in an interrogation (Verbal Conflict), we will have multiple rounds as if we were battling an animal, right? We’ve only done one verbal conflict before and it was great, even though we may not have done it exactly right. They did a fabulous job coming up with arguments.

Kind of wrong to call this first obstacle “uncover the plot” because that’s not an obstacle… it is essentially a conflict, possibly preceded by a roll regarding the letter. Hmmm, I guess I have to call the mission Uncover the Plot. The first obstacle is ??? secretive mice? Wait, is this whole thing a COMPLEX Obstacle with the mailbag the first step (a simple roll) and the second step a conflict? (I have to get my terminology down right.) If that’s correct, what is the proper term for that first simple step? It’s not an obstacle or a conflict or a twist, what is it? That’s a quick roll of the dice really. Is that why my missions are too long? Would that really be a first obstacle? Roll the dice and Roleplay looking through the mail. One obstacle down in 5 minutes or less? You couldn’t really have a long game at that rate.

And, I think I will leave it at just the mailbag and interrogation for the obstacle(s). There could obviously be a follow up mission after Winter of dealing with Ivydale’s governor. Or, perhaps Gwendolyn would just send some other NPC guards to arrest him and escort a temporary replacement and the rest is unimportant to my mice. But, since my goal is to play a real Winter Session, I don’t need a lot of drama.

But, if this were a full blown mission, how else might I extend it? If the mission is uncover the plot, then the interrogation takes care of that. Oh! Maybe the follow up is done in the Player’s Turn? Can the Player’s decide that Gwendolyn sends them on a mission to Ivydale?

And, if they did go to Ivydale to deal with the Governor. Or even, if their mission failed because they failed the interrogation and they use the Player’s Turn to investigate further, the GM turn would have been too short to allow enough checks to do an investigation. Wait… In the conflict, they could use their traits against them at least several times, couldn’t they?

Okay, I guess that’s enough questions for now. I’d appreciate any help. Even if I stumble my way through this without answers today, it will be okay. We will have fun and they will never know what I didn’t know ;). But it will be great information for the future.

4

Hi Renee,

I just saw these posts, so I’m going to try to jump in on a few points, however it looks like your game is coming along well–you certainly seem to be getting the hang of game mastering.

You’ve got it. PCs are the player’s characters, and NPCs are the supporting (non-player) characters, usually handled by the GM.

Whenever I prepare a mission, I try to anticipate where the most interesting opportunities for obstacles or conflict will be. The “unfinished business” portion of the Winter Session, if I remember correctly, is more like a Players’ Turn that a proper mission. Each player will get one scene in order either to make a test or to initiate a conflict. If the characters already are in possession of the letter, I’d let them take the lead as far as what they want to do with it, rather than prepping obstacles for them. How does the content of the letter hit their Beliefs and Instincts? It seems reasonable for one of them to make a test to decipher the meaning of the letter, and then they can decide how they want to go from there. Will they take this information to Gwendolyn? Will they confront Maxwell themselves? Do they have preexisting relationships with any of the characters involved with the conspiracy?

Most of all, as game master, I would strive to keep the focus of the latter part of the Winter Session on the players and what interests them. If they want to pursue things with the letter, that’s great. If they have other matters that the find more engaging, that’s fine too. If the go the latter route, use the situation behind the letter as fodder for your setup of their spring mission. Have Gwendolyn dispatch them to Ivydale to deal with the fallout from the plot.

Good luck, and be sure to come back and let us know how things went.

5

I’ve read all the posts about the mail, Tedd, the conspiracy, and Winter. I really like it; you’ve certainly got a load of complexity for the conspiracy, and that makes Tedd a simple mook or a thuggish goon–he barely know what is going on and how risky it is to be involved.

So, I’ll talk about advice regarding the mission in Mission design style.

Mission: Quell the Conspiracy (I tend to title all sorts of portions)
A secretive letter tells the pawns of a master plan to begin moving; however, the letter was never intended to be sent. The patrol is alarmed by what this new discovery may bring, and cannot avoid a late Autumn mission to arrest the wrong-doers. Meanwhile, a suspected murderer is loose in Lockhaven who the patrol unknowingly invited.

Obstacles: Mice Weather
Twist: Mice Wilderness

Assign the Mission:
Discover what secret caused Tedd to murder Sloane, bring Tedd to justice before he escapes Lockhaven, and unravel the mysteries of the letter’s intended meaning before anyone else takes action.

(Personally, I’d give them the finding and reading of the letter free; this also tells them it is intended for Maxwell, one of a handful of assistant beekeepers, and relays the cryptic coded message; some mice might be upset about mail being opened, but generally the Guard members agree the case required it, artisans living in Lockhaven argue, but know they are invited guests.)

Mice Obstacle: Suspects in the Citadel
The patrol knows two initial suspects involved in the conspiracy are in Lockhaven–Tedd (who slipped away upon arrival) and Maxwell (who works in the apiary)–and both could be dangerous to the patrol and other Guard members if confronted in the wrong place and time. The patrol will need to act carefully, this calls for a complex test requiring a Scout Vs Nature (hiding) (Tedd) and Circles Ob 2 (Maxwell) test. Success of both tests gives the patrol both suspects arrested and under lock and key without incident. (will explain below)

Failure of either test results in both suspects finding each other before the patrol finds both (possibly cause they found one, which spooked him into seeking the other); this gives them a chance to get the story straight, but they can’t leave Lockhaven–the patrol warned the gate watch not to allow these two mice to leave. This will lead to a Twist (explained below).

Failure of both tests results in both suspects finding each other and before the patrol even got started; they are on the run in the (not first) second snow of Autumn and might not even be headed for Ivydale. This results in a Twist (explained below).

Mice Twist: A Desperate Plea or A Desperate Flee
In this case, the obstacle has gotten worse; this is mentioned on pg 69 in the final two sentences on that page. The worse part of this depends on their efforts in the complex obstacle. I’m using the complex obstacle so that they have more to do than just find one mouse; they’ve got to find both suspects in order to discover the complete truth. It isn’t really an option, but the players might not feel these mice matter; because, I’m betting neither is listed among contacts. You may have to simply drive it home: In order to fulfill the mission, you’ve got to track down both and get the story from both.

If one test has failed, the patrol did not yet make an arrest; because, one arrest would probably spook the other into hiding or running. In order to keep Lockhaven calm, the patrol tried to plan a double arrest, but it didn’t go quite right. But at least the gate watch was warned not to let the two mice leave. SOOO, the suspects cannot run, they turn themselves over, and start to talk about a deal. In this Twist, the two suspects are driving toward a Negotiation Conflict; however, the patrol might manage an Argument Conflict.

If both tests have failed, the patrol took too long with their search, didn’t mention things to the gate watch, and the suspects met before getting caught; they left Lockhaven headed elsewhere–maybe to Ivydale, maybe to Wildseed, maybe a special bandit lair near Blackrock–you decide! This is still a Mice problem: the missing mice is hindering the completion of the mission. The truth lies in recovering those two suspects and hearing their explanation of the truth. Sooo, this drives a Chase Conflict: the patrol has to act fast, follow any clue, and find them whereever they’ve gone.

So, that’s all one obstacle and one twist covered. I should explain how things go if both tests succeed. You can narrate this taking a long time or a short time, but the patrol finds, arrests, and questions the two suspects, and works out a plea deal of some type. No twist about whether their interrogation requires a test. That’s not very fair play. So, the success up front means they very likely have loads of info–too much to deal with easily. The success means they’ve arranged justice for the death of Sloane–even if that means Todd doesn’t die, but ends up imprisoned. You decide how much power over death they get. However, it doesn’t totally unravel the mystery; the lead now takes them to Ivydale’s leaders.

In fact, that should be true of both the full success or partial success. Once they’ve really dealt with getting the info from Todd and Maxwell, now the patrol understands the Ivydale leaders are corrupt. They’ve got to decide how to deal with it. Since it is town business, they might feel the Guard has no jurisdiction, which complicates the decision.

Weather Obstacle: Not Rain for the Weary
Just as the patrol realizes the true mastermind of the letter and the intended result, there is a third late Autumn snowstorm. The patrol needs to arrive in Ivydale fast; any delay gives time for the governor and magistrate to make plans–the patrol doesn’t know the magistrate is dead: Todd was only told to get that letter back! They all think there might be an armed force gathering in Ivydale under the leadership of the governor and magistrate.

But darn this storm.

This will create a serious delay; unless the patrol drives on through the snowstorm, they cannot imagine how to stop a serious battle.

They get a chance to attempt Weather Watcher Vs Autumn to predict when the storm will blow out its worst, but still must attempt a Pathfinder Ob 4 (Weather and Time are factors too). See, a complex obstacle.

But, the patrol could skip the extra time predicting the weather and opt for a harsh trek for the nearby Ivydale. That will require Health Vs Autumn–and each mouse must test individually. See, that’s a simple obstacle, but it forces each mouse to suffer unique consequences.

The patrol can decide which is best.

The risk in the case of the complex obstacle involving Weather Watcher and Pathfinder is the Wilderness Twist.

The risk in the case of the simple obstacle involving Health is becoming Sick. That’s rough.

Identify the risks for the patrol to consider which is best.

Wilderness Twist: Not Without My Daughter
While travelling, the patrol seems to be doing okay in the snow and cold. They’ve managed this in the past, and no one is too badly complaining. During the brief trek, they find a motherly mouse distraught and pleading for help to find her daughter in the snowy fields south of Lockhaven. Both are whitefur mice, so it is hard to track by sight alone.

The frozen wilderness, the deep snow, the frequently snapped trees and overblown clumps of dead leaves are certainly dangers, but there are predators who would easily use the winter for hunting.

Unless the patrol is heartless, they will face a task of Scout Vs Autumn in order to search for the lost mouse. This is sorta a mix of Mice and Wilderness, so place greater emphasis on the narration of terrain, snow, cold, creeks or ponds, and the open prairie fields south between the forest of Lockhaven and the forest of Ivydale. Also, wilderness acts as a symptom of the season and takes the Autumn rating. But, Time and Weather are still a serious thing, so you can imagine Wilderness using the snowstorm like Gear for a +1D. You could also imagine other terrain features that commonly might hamper the search acting as Gear for +1D.

Now, another note about Scout. In Lockhaven, they tested Scout Vs Todd’s Nature (hiding). In this case, the daughter is not trying to hide; she’s trying to be found! It is the wilderness that is trying to hide her. That is why the patrol must test Scout Vs Autumn.

Sucess: they find her and find out this is the magistrate’s wife/daughter, or sister/neice. You decide. In fact, if you can also make this a Friend or Enemy of a patrol member, that’s great. All the more reason to stop the trek in search of the lost mouse. Maybe they had planned to come spend winter in Lockhaven with that Guard member. Something.

Failure: They find the lost mouse, but are Hungry or Tired from the extra time spent searching. You can decide the Condition. It might be the mouse who tested Scout is Hungry and Tired, but the Helpers are Hungry.

Now, that Twist is done, and the patrol can continue into Ivydale.

And, that’s the GM Turn. The patrol has made their way to Ivydale. Maybe the lost mouse and mother have been brought to Ivydale; since, it is a closeby location where they can await the patrol’s return to Lockhaven. Maybe they even wanted to escort that contact to Lockhaven and start over on the trek to Ivydale (that’s a gamble).

Now the Player Turn begins; the mission probably doesn’t feel complete. They still haven’t fully unraveled the mystery, but they’ve made a great deal of progress. Also, they now find out the Magistrate is dead, and the Governor claims nothing about breaking free or such. He might claim Todd is lying and Maxwell he never heard of.

To really increase the draw, think of who Maxwell is. He might be more than an assistant–he may be an apprentice to a Sr Artisan; in the upcoming spring he’s going to become a Tenderpaw. What might all this conspiracy mean to his career? his family?

Perhaps Todd really wanted to be a Guard, and didn’t realize just what the governor had done–instead of Todd knowingly poisoning Sloane, the governor gave him poison to use, but told him it was harmless.

Perhaps the magistrate had planned to murder the governor once the plan was set into motion, so now another member of his circle does the deed to close all the loose ends–the patrol arrives to find the magistrate dead and governor murdered.

All that stuff is extra complexity. So, don’t go overboard.

6

Thank you Daniel and Ken :). We played a Winter Mission for the first time and it was great fun. In the Player’s Turn, Forsythe tried to make headway with the mystery, but there werent’ enough checks or success rolls. It ended though with him receiving word from Gwendolyn that the message had been found and deciphered. I think we are going to finish the mission today.

Ken, I have a few questions about things you said…

“they’ve got to find both suspects in order to discover the complete truth. It isn’t really an option, but the players might not feel these mice matter; because, I’m betting neither is listed among contacts.” Are you implying that an option, perhaps a good one, would have been to make Todd or Maxwell someone listed in the PC’s contacts as we fill them in on their character sheet? I’ve not yet gotten to playing their contacts well at all yet. I’ve done it only once or twice. If that’s what you mean, practically speaking, if we come to the table for a game and I don’t know what characters they are bringing, how would I work that? Is there 15 minutes or so at the beginning of a game for a GM to quickly modify his plan? Or is it that generally speaking a GM plays with the same people and the same characters from game to game?

Secondly, you said “No twist about whether their interrogation requires a test. That’s not very fair play.” Why would that not be fair play? I think I make most of their choices or attempts at some idea a test. If I’m doing it wrong, I’d like to know :). For instance, there might be an weather obstacle (snow) and then maybe a twist (the tree they tried to weather under broke), but then I would probably go on to have them test further ideas like pathfinding to get on their way or survivalist to find wood for fire or scout and/or health to find success of climbing a tree and spotting a new path when the snow blows over. Those are just ideas off the top of my head, but if a decision stands a chance of failure we usually roll. Maybe this is why our games take so long? Should our tests simply be the obstacle and twists?

Lastly, you said, “And, that’s the GM Turn. The patrol has made their way to Ivydale.” I would not have thought to end it here. I wouldn’t have ended the GM turn until they had found all parties involved and dealt with them. You worded the mission “Discover what secret caused Tedd to murder Sloane, bring Tedd to justice before he escapes Lockhaven, and unravel the mysteries of the letter’s intended meaning before anyone else takes action.” So, I guess the mission is completed simply by deciphering the letter. But, there is an implied follow up to make sure the plot dies. If the mission ends with their arrival at Ivydale, it’s not over. If it ends with them discovering the major parties are dead, then I suppose its over. However, who killed them could be played out in PT. If it ends with them arresting the governor and sending him back to Lockhaven, its over. But, if it ends with their arrival in Ivydale or simply having found the lost girl (I like that twist :), I don’t see how that is a conclusion to the mission. Or does the GM turn not necessarily end with the end of a mission. If not, what would be a good guideline for when to end the GM turn, if there is one. I will probably play it with the GM turn ending in one of the ways you suggest so that we can practice really doing things in the PT which we aren’t very good at yet.

Thank you for your advice.

7

What I might have written for better clarity: they’ve got to get the truth from both suspects; this isn’t optional. Though the players might not realize these mice matter; and also, I’m betting they are not listed among contacts on the sheet.

In this I mean, the GM is handing down the result they need to seek: arrest both suspects and hear both sides/versions of the truth–not optional. The table chatter can possibly suggest optional ways to go about that. The GM has imagined a complex obstacle of Scout Vs Nature and Circles Ob x, but suggestions from table chatter could present an interesting alternate method of making the arrests.

However, table chatter could not suggest an alternate obstacle or alternate way to face the obstacle; for example, the players should not be allowed to say, “we don’t really care about Tedd now that he’s disappeared. Let’s just get Maxwell, and that will be enough.”

If that’s what you mean, practically speaking, if we come to the table for a game and I don’t know what characters they are bringing, how would I work that? Is there 15 minutes or so at the beginning of a game for a GM to quickly modify his plan? Or is it that generally speaking a GM plays with the same people and the same characters from game to game?

I’d say maybe 50/50 on having changes during 15 minutes prior to game time. In that example mission, I’d leave Tedd and Maxwell as the established suspects, but the later mouse lost in the wilderness could easily be selected from their relationships–whether Parents, Mentors, Artisans, Friends, or Enemies–without altering the core mission. In fact, selecting a relationship for that moment might increase the difficulty of choosing to continue quickly to Ivydale or spend time helping.

So, perhaps the advice is plan a mission, and at points in which a mouse will present something to the patrol, sometimes that will be an exact mouse, and sometimes it will be a relationship chosen 15 minutes prior to game time.

Secondly, you said “No twist about whether their interrogation requires a test. That’s not very fair play.” Why would that not be fair play? I think I make most of their choices or attempts at some idea a test. If I’m doing it wrong, I’d like to know :).

Ah, well, in this case I have to admit to My Opinion. For the example mission, I imagine that the first obstacle is: the patrol must find and question the two suspects in order to get the truth. I feel the more interesting challenge is to test the complex arrest by tracking Tedd, who is hiding, and rounding up Maxwell, who is not aware of the failed ploy. However, it is important to note that another GM might feel the more interesting challenge lies in getting the suspects to spill the truth, such as tricking Tedd into self-incriminating and coercing Maxwell to admit the plans.

Yet another GM might feel both are equally interesting challenges, thus requiring first a method for getting the suspects followed by second a method for getting the truth.

That is the first half of My Opinion admission. The second half is in how many tests to call for. When I place an obstacle in the mission design, I imagine what one or two tests will probably resolve the overall obstacle. I consider whether it might be big enough to call for a conflict (which is rare for me). I save other ideas for the twist. So, my example mission describes the Twist of a missing the complex obstacle leads to a Conflict–Chase or Argument or Negotiation–to complete the obstacle.

This means that (in my example) the complex test determines not only success of the arrest, but also success of the interrogation. In the case of the Twist, the patrol might be forced to compromise with the suspects in order to gain the truth; Tedd might require a promise of freedom upon giving up information about the governor; Maxwell might request forgiveness and to be permitted entrance into the Guard as a Tenderpaw (he didn’t go through with the poisoning, after all!).

So, in my opinion, testing the patrol over the arrest, then forcing another test over the questioning, is not fair play. I’d say they earned that in the complex obstacle, or they failed to earn in the complex obstacle. If they failed to earn it, then they get to probably attempt by way of the Twist.

Now, a final comment on this, if they face the complex obstacle successfully, then must test again to manage getting information, is that a second Obstacle? or a Twist on the success? Is it just all part of the first Obstacle? I’d say, part of the flow of Mouse Guard includes the limited number of tests–one per simple obstacle, two, maybe three, per complex obstacle, lots of tests per conflict, yet probably only one or two per mouse and probably only one gains a pass/fail from the conflict.

For instance, there might be an weather obstacle (snow) and then maybe a twist (the tree they tried to weather under broke), but then I would probably go on to have them test further ideas like pathfinding to get on their way or survivalist to find wood for fire or scout and/or health to find success of climbing a tree and spotting a new path when the snow blows over. Those are just ideas off the top of my head, but if a decision stands a chance of failure we usually roll. Maybe this is why our games take so long? Should our tests simply be the obstacle and twists?

this is a tender spot. I agree that if a task has a risk of failure, then roll. I also agree that if a task has little risk of failure, don’t roll. But, I’d still pick and choose how many tests in the GM Turn. I’m fairly limited, as I mentioned.

So, I don’t want to dictate GM Guidelines. I’ll give a rule-of-thumb which I hope anyone can adapt for their own needs.

When designing the mission (prior to a game), imagine what it takes to overcome an Obstacle in order to face the next Obstacle. When playing the mission (during the game), imagine how much the patrol can risk doing trivial things–as tests with risk of Conditions or Twists–before they are exhausted.

This can be for GMs and players to consider. I like the example you gave above: Weather is disrupting the mission; Patrol attempts Survivalist by hunkering down near a tree (coward dice lead to Twist); Wilderness makes the situation worse when the tree splits from the weight of snow; Patrol must think …

So, I like this example, the Twist they face is rather open-ended–‘I won’t say what you have to do, but this fallen tree won’t do.’ And, I agree there are loads of methods for the patrol to move forward: Pathfind a route onward despite the conditions, Forage materials for a fire, Climb another tree for perspective (I might include this act in a Pathfinder test), Snuggle close and hope to outlast the cold (always an easy and fun test), etc. I think the difference between my GM style is that I’d encourage the patrol to Pick One! That is, pick the one task which the whole patrol can agree is most likely to help, then choose who will roll and who will Help. Once that one best task is rolled, get underway on the next Twist or next Obstacle.

I like your example, so I’m going to play it out a bit further. So, we’ll imagine the patrol feels the best course of action is to move onward to a nearby village or town; the Patrol Leader has a strong Pathfinder rating, and asks the two Guardmice to help out–one climbs a nearby tree for a good perspective on the landscape and possibly sights a village with smoke rising–one forages for dry fuel to build fires along the route when the patrol breaks to rest. Now, both have offered a Helper to the Patrol Leader; yes, their actions have a risk of failure, but those actions are wrapped up in the risk of failure the Patrol Leader also faces. To overcome the Wilderness Twist, the Patrol Leader rolls Pathfinder Vs Season (Winter? Autumn?). In this case, we’ll imagine they’ve failed again; cowardly dice! As GM, I can introduce another Twist, or give Success w/ Conditions (such as everyone becoming Sick from exposure, or Ptl Ldr is Tired and Sick with everyone else Tired). I’ll pass up the Conditions in favor on another Twist–a Twist on the Twist is a fun way to keep driving the GM Turn deeper against the players; it drives them further from the mission.

So, let’s imagine an Animal Twist: the patrol finds a small group of hares (like three or four) who are following from a little distance. The hares know mice keep stores of food; it isn’t exactly the same food as they eat, but it is mostly the same. With the deep winter upon them, this little band of hares could enjoy stealing from mice if only they could find the village. Now, this is another open-ended question for the patrol. They don’t have to hurt the hares–they might strike a deal. Still, the village doesn’t belong to the patrol, so they can’t just go promising food from the village. Maybe they could distract the hares by foraging for them; or drive them off; or try to attract a predator who would keep the hares away from mice. Lots of why? and how? table chatter could get started over an open-ended situation. In fact, I might even allow the patrol to do nothing to the hares, “Neat, wild hares following behind; as long as those are near, we can be sure there are no large predators. As soon as they spook, we’ll know there is something dangerous nearby.”

ok, all that talk about examples is to return to your question about how long to run the GM Turn. It kinda depends, but I’d go with the rule-of-thumb: When designing the mission (prior to a game), imagine what it takes to overcome an Obstacle in order to face the next Obstacle. When playing the mission (during the game), imagine how much the patrol can risk doing trivial things before they are exhausted.

Your group might totally love long GM Turns with lots of Twists and few Conditions. As a Player, I’ve felt a preference for Conditions with few Twists. As a GM, I’ve felt a preference for moderate Twists and moderate Conditions. And each session might be a different mix.

Lastly, you said, “And, that’s the GM Turn. The patrol has made their way to Ivydale.” I would not have thought to end it here. I wouldn’t have ended the GM turn until they had found all parties involved and dealt with them. You worded the mission “Discover what secret caused Tedd to murder Sloane, bring Tedd to justice before he escapes Lockhaven, and unravel the mysteries of the letter’s intended meaning before anyone else takes action.” So, I guess the mission is completed simply by deciphering the letter. But, there is an implied follow up to make sure the plot dies. If the mission ends with their arrival at Ivydale, it’s not over. If it ends with them discovering the major parties are dead, then I suppose its over. However, who killed them could be played out in PT. If it ends with them arresting the governor and sending him back to Lockhaven, its over. But, if it ends with their arrival in Ivydale or simply having found the lost girl (I like that twist :), I don’t see how that is a conclusion to the mission. Or does the GM turn not necessarily end with the end of a mission. If not, what would be a good guideline for when to end the GM turn, if there is one. I will probably play it with the GM turn ending in one of the ways you suggest so that we can practice really doing things in the PT which we aren’t very good at yet.

I think you’ve identified exactly the difficult compromise which each GM must attempt. Sometimes, the mission will be incomplete, but the patrol is safe and secure. Sometimes the mission is still in limbo, yet the patrol is burdened with Conditions. Sometimes the mission is barely started, and the patrol has been dealing with disruptions and interruptions throughout the GM Turn.

I will generally end a GM Turn with the patrol in reasonably safe situation, such as in town or in camp. I won’t always have the mission complete. I do try to make the Obstacles an interruption or disruption of the mission, so these are not challenges of succeeding at the mission, but sideline items (This isn’t always my method, but I do consider it always in designing missions). I attempt to give frustration that the obstacles are happening.

“Why are we dealing with this?! when our mission is to do that?!” That’s a disruption!

“I want to get that done, but I’ve got to get this done before getting started!” That’s an interruption!

If the patrol has completed the mission in the GM Turn–regardless of the situation–I’ll swap to Player Turn even if they are stuck somewhere. That might mean the first check is about getting somewhere reasonably safe.