Quick question regarding the table on page 558.
“Exceeds obstacle, +1 to the DoF” As written it appears that getting 2 successes vs. an Ob 1 would not only grant a hit, but a hit at +1 DoF.
Furthermore, 2 successes would qualify as “Double obstacle, +2 to DoF” so this could mean that just by hitting the target (2 successes Vs. Ob1) the DoF would have a +2 Modifier!
Am I reading this right? (If so, a thrown knife that just barely hits has a 50/50 chance of doing either a Mark or Superior damage, the modifier eliminated the possibility of any Incidental damage.)
Yes. But in many cases the base obstacle is higher than 1. If your base ob is 3, then getting 4 or 5 successes gets you the +1 to the DoF and getting 6+ successes gets you +2 on the DoF.
Ok then (that “Halfling” is gonna be fun then).
Thanks for the answer, and for answering so fast!
That thrown knife would have a base obstacle of 2 (pg. 451), so you’d need 4 successes to eliminate the chance of incidental damage. If it just barely hit (2 successes) you’d get an unmodified DoF roll.
Right, I forgot about 451, (and thanks for the reminder) so 2 successes would miss, 3 successes would get a +1 modifier (exceeds the obstacle), 4 successes would get a +2 (doubled the obstacle), and 6 successes would get a +3 (tripled the obstacle) against an obstacle 2. You can get an incidental hit on an obstacle 2 with 3 successes, any more and it’s a midi or supreme hit.
Larkin: 2 successes hit. Meets the obstacle. Regular DoF, no modifiers.
No, ties go to the defender. If an attacker only gets 2 successes against an obstacle 2 defender he has met, but not beaten, the obstacle and the tie goes to the defender (unless the attacker has a call-on trait like nimble that can be used to break the tie).
Ties go to the defender in a versus test. In a test against an Ob there’s no such thing as a tie, and meeting or exceeding the Ob is a success whether there’s a “defender” or not. That’s the definition of Obstacle: the number of successes you need to succeed!
Also a nitpick. Hits come in Incidental, Mark, and Superior. There’s no Midi; that’s a description of wounds.
I don’t know how three different people all read that and came to the same conclusion individualy (and worse yet, taught it that way to two more), but we did. Thanks for setting me straight on that, I’ll pass it along to group.
So does that mean that a characters “Nimble” call-on trait for throwing is only used for versus and bloody versus tests then?
And my appologies to Valennor, and thank you both for helping me learn this.
I always seem to get those terms messed up (mark and midi) thanks again for pointing that out, I shall redouble my efforts to get it straight. And please, “nit pick” away! (Sometimes that’s the only way I can learn) If I can’t see the problem I can’t fix it.
Hey, no apology necessary! Discussing the rules is how we learn them correctly
A Call-On can be used to break ties in your favor or re-roll failed dice. So, it’s totally useful in Fight where you’re not necessarily rolling versus an opponent.
It’s well worth keeping that latter power in mind. Breaking ties is nice, but it’s relatively rare. Rerolling dice is going to at least be an option on practically every roll, and that’s a huge benefit. That’s Deeds-level stuff there!
I’ve actually always found it kind of funny that you can use a C-O to break a tie. I mean, it makes sense, but much of the time rerolling failed dice will likely do it for you anyway. Not always, since you can either get no successes on the rerolls or have no failed dice to reroll, but still. At least in my games versus tests are not too common and ties are, of course, even less so.
I think we had a couple of versus outside of playing 74 (Hub and Spokes) as we prefer DoW and Fight (although having read some game postings, I can see some situations where a good versus or bloody versus could be the right test to make). I always thought that C-Os were either one or the other, (tie breaker or reroll) if you can designate as needed between the two, that’s a big help game wise without being overpowering rules wise.
A Call-on trait can be used once per session for either of the effects. While you can’t use the same Call-on to break a tie and later in the session reroll failed dice, you most definitely can use the same trait to break a tie in one session and then reroll failed dice in another. Now, I routinely forget about using Call-ons to beak ties in your favor since it’s (almost) always better to reroll failures (generate margin of success, etc).
And yeah, base missile fire against as an independent action is Ob 2, and it’s a hit with no margin if you generate two successes. (This has been said, but it’s always good to reiterate). Remember that this is true for any independent weapon test, so the pain mounts quickly if you find yourself getting sworded at a bad moment.
Most ranged weapons are Ob 2. Bows are unique in being Ob 1. It’s a big deal!
Bows are Ob 1? Damn, I need to re-check that. I thought the bonus of a bow was being able to nock an arrow in zero time as part of the nock and draw action.
Bows are on 1 to hit in fight, as per p. 451. They’re on 2 to hit in R&C, just like any thing else (p. 406 specifically describes this obstacle as applying to “archers, crossbowmen and fusiliers”).