Torchbearer Advanced Rulebook: What Will It Look Like?

In an interview with Thor someone made the observation that the inside cover of the Torchbearer book is the “Basic Rules for level 1-5”. They asked the question if this meant that we could expect an “advanced” rulebook. Thor suggested that we could. What do you want to see? What do you think we’ll get? This thread is for all speculation and wishlists about an advanced Torchbearer rulebook.

My Take:

[li] Rules for levels 6-10
[/li][li] New Spells/Prayers for 1st and 2nd Circles
[/li][li] Higher Circle Spells
[/li][li] More Base Classes (to reflect the AD&D PHB)
[/li][li] Rules for designing your own spells
[/li][li] Rules for designing your own classes
[/li][li] More kinds of settlements

[li]more magic items
[/li][li]rules for making your own magic items
[/li][li]hex crawl rules (I run my game as a hexcrawl, but I’d be interested in seeing how Torchbearer would do it)

Lance rules

Non Dungeon crawling, War conflicts…

More dynamic and unique level bonuses for each class
Open Class and Stock options
Familiar and Pet Class options

I totally forgot about animal companions! I have some ideas about how to work this into the game that I’ll post soon.

Thor (somewhere on the internet or on some podcast) has said that Torchbearer will gradually move away from the dungeon in later levels. So… I’m going to assume that either the Town Phase is going to be expanded, or that there’s going to be some new phase involving political intrigue. Torchbearer -> Kingmaker? Crownbearer? This coincides with the Battle conflicts, yet to be thrown into the rules.

Maybe a reputation system would be implemented alongside that a la Burning Wheel. +1-3D to Resources based on your reputation with a particular settlement.

The above is just speculation, but Journey rules are something Thor has pretty much confirmed in a podcast.

I don’t know about you guys, but at level 10 I’m ascending to become an Immortal Lord. Rules for that would be something. I’d also like to see more specialization with level benefits dependent upon alignments. For instance, only a cleric of the law may take the Holier Than Thou benefit, but loses it if she ever turns to the side of the unaffiliated or the chaotic.

And economies of scale. I want to make 10x Fear Poisons. What’s my obstacle?

PS: Rules for carts and baggage!

I did not know about the moving away from dungeoneering. I can absolutely see the higher levels being about building kingdoms/estates, kind of a BW take on the progression of Adventurer Conquerer King. That would be incredible.

Come to think of it, that would involve rules for property, business, and other prospects to defend and support such ventures. I could see this involving an upkeep phase similar to Burning Wheel’s resources cycles.

Yep. I could also see a game where your enemies (assuming they lived) have their own kingdoms and you play out the rivalries on a much larger scale. If this doesn’t happen from the folks at BWHQ, I am absolutely going to design rules around this very thing.

Battle does seem to be alluded to, as does being raised from the dead.

Losing THAC0 in in order to be easier to compute on-the-fly, partially making up for the 1000x additional complexity via “a rule for everything”.

Also: Complete reliance on maps and minis.

It would not be difficult to create a “character” of “The Kingdom of the Elves (hiding, remembering, singing)” with skills representing general capabilities of the populace, kingdom resources, relations with other nations (circles) and the Grind representing regular upkeep of the kingdom’s defenses, coffers, granaries, etc. Conflicts would be macro-scale (War, Diplomacy) and heroes would be sent out on quests on the micro-scale.

The way I see this playing out is that every skill basically has advanced uses. Pathfinder to make roads, Stonemason to build castles/defenses (if you, during your adventuring days, cleared out a mine you can use it as supplies for the test), etc. Survivalist to counter the effects of drought and famine (no doubt the result of a twist). The very early game involves hiring people from existing towns to build your initial settlements (most begin play as remote village). Command is used to maneuver armies to conquer neighboring kingdoms (you could very well turn against your neighbors, the kings and queens people you used to go adventuring with).

Conditions would apply to your kingdom as a whole. Twists involve larger scale consequences. You failed a Peasant test? They don’t want to build your kingdom. Make a command test or your citizens become Angry and begin rioting. You failed a Hunting test? The hunting party awoken Dragons or Giants, and they are now marching on your Kingdom. go to War conflict.

I really want to design this advanced game, but I doubt I have the time to commit to it.

Edit: and the name would totally be Crownbearer.

Cool. On a smaller scale, though, we have property to deal with. Titles. Guilds. I’m sure these would be addressed more closely in an advanced rule book, with or without rules for conquests.

I’m looking at that steward skill in a whole new light now. Time to brew up a “Merchant” class.

Yeah, Steward would be a key skill in this environment.

As to the nitty gritty of titles and property and all of that, I think that would be how you advance settlements. The first place you build is simply a remote village. What trades does it offer? Why, the ones you and your friends chose at the time of character creation. From there, you build amenities in town (churches, stables, etc) and each class of town (busy crossroads, bustling metropolis, etc) would have a threshold (ie, needs to have certain skills, needs a certain number of amenities).

Rather than a Camp/Town phase, I think we would have something like a Council and Holiday phase to try and deal with the problems of your kingdom. Each one advances the game a season.

Working title: Torchburning Empires

Steward would be the skill to test for a “making camp” bonus for the planning phase (ruling phase / planning phase / trading phase)?

Rules for BATTLE.*

*pronounced “bah-tuhl,” per Mario in the original MarioCart.