Traps & Secret Doors

[Thor]

@jovialbard

This is sort of overlapping with this thread now. I see your point, though an area with seemingly endless maze-like hallways might just get frustrating or annoying for players, particularly if they aren’t keeping a visual map (the fun of that kind of maze exploration was always drawing it out and fixing the mistakes when you realize it’s wrong). I might go with a Pathfinder test if they were lost in some abandoned warren of the underdark just to avoid an hour or more of meaningless frustrating play. But then, maybe TB isn’t meant to be played in an abandoned warren of the underdark? It does seem like TB is about discrete locations packed full of “fun” rather than sprawling labyrinths. But the Pathfinder skill isn’t a bad compromise if you feel like a sprawling labyrinth is appropriate to the setting and idioms in play at the moment… at least to me.

Why not just take the time to map it?

[jovialbard]

@Thor

Why not just take the time to map it?

Response in other thread (for anyone who’s interested in this)

[HumanShield]

Anyone find a good middle solution to this issue?

Option 1: Roll search for every room and hallway - this would seem to require someone having the instinct for this and gives them a lot more rolls than most other players.

Option 2: Don’t roll if nothing there - Now the instinct would do less for you, and a party without the instinct can search every room without taking up turns. And secret doors will be noted in the event of failure and returned to after leveling (or first chance to retry).

[jovialbard]

No middle solution needed. Option 2 is almost right.

Keep in mind this is a narrative game first, the rules only exist to adjudicate conflict and risk. You don’t get to find the secret door unless you describe your character doing something that would allow you to find the secret door. “I look for secret doors” does not count, that isn’t an actual action. On the other hand if you describe feeling along a wall you may get a scout test (if it is relevant), but you have no idea whether that scout test was for a secret door, a trap, hidden treasure, or the goblins that are just around the corner. At least you don’t know until you roll the test, and you can’t back out once the test is called for so it’s too late to say “Okay, there’s something there, we’ll come back to it later.” Nope, you’re committed, and if you fail you are either getting a condition and succeeding anyway or there’s some twist that stops you before you actually know the nature of what’s actually there. Is there something there? Maybe, or maybe the scout test was just for the goblins that ambushed you while you were wasting time feeling around every crack in the wall.

eta: Thinking about it though, you do raise an interesting point in that if the characters defeat the goblins and then search the wall again in the same way, they would get another test, and that coincidence would be telling. On the other hand if a failure ever makes the presence of something obvious, the GM can just use Condition and resolve the event favorably. You find the secret door but all this searching has tested your patience and you are angry.

[Ludanto]

Well put!

@jovialbard

Thinking about it though, you do raise an interesting point in that if the characters defeat the goblins and then search the wall again in the same way, they would get another test, and that coincidence would be telling. On the other hand if a failure ever makes the presence of something obvious, the GM can just use Condition and resolve the event favorably. You find the secret door but all this searching has tested your patience and you are angry.

Knowing something’s there isn’t a problem, though. It still uses up another turn, and still risks failure and consequences if you fail the roll again. If you’ve got a well-crafted instinct, good for you, but it still risks consequences on a failure (and you probably can’t get any help). And as you explained, it could just be a trap.

[jovialbard]

Good point. It’s just a little odd because if you know something is there then you got what you wanted (thought not completely), but I don’t think that’s game breaking.