Vaylen Beliefs (general discussion)

Burning Empires General Questions
1

This is something I’ve been thinking about a while, and this thread, while not directly related, prompted me to post something up.

What are some typical Vaylen beliefs people are using out there? I’m trying to figure out what actual play supports.

Canon-wise, we have only the graphic novels and the rulebook to guide us. In the graphic novels, the Vaylen seem either to be moustache-twirling villains (what are their actual motivations in either book other than “take over a human world”?) or sensualists (although I have my doubts as to whether Rhiannon is actually getting off on the experiences of her host or if she’s seducing whatshisface with the description).

Okay, so not much there to work with.

The rulebook implies things that are important to the Vaylen are:
[ul]
[li]Feeling human (Pinocchio)[/li][li]Playacting out human life[/li][li]Honoring the clan[/li][li]Taking over planets[/ul]Again, not so much there when it comes to building out actual in-play Vaylen Beliefs.[/li]
My intuition is that the first couple are where the real juice is – Vaylens who want to experience certain human things just because they want to, and doing stuff humans do because they want to be human.

The Pinocchio beliefs are fairly easy. You end up with beliefs like “I will feel the joy of falling in love,” “I want to experience fear,” “Sadness is the sweetest fruit” and all that, as well as the attendant to-do items attached. I’m having trouble hooking those into the global conquest thing, but more on that in a bit.

The second – playacting out human life – is tricky for me to think through. The Human setting lifepaths suggest the Vaylen play at being human in big, melodramatic ways, like children playing out soap opera characters. But this is all getting very meta for me: Real people experience melodramas because of mutually incompatible agendas/passions, kids play at melodrama because it’s fun. It all sounds very much like RPG theory when you come down to it.

Are the Vaylen one big race of roleplayers? Or wannabes most likely, since the console (host) cost is apparently very high.

The third one seems like theme and variation on loyalty to family. You can rationalize just about anything as long as it “honors the clan.” Which is kind of weak to me.

And the fourth, taking over worlds, is definitely a good to-do item but the drive seem to do more with raw expansionism and survival than it does with any innate desire for any given world. If a human wanted to take over the world it might be because he felt he’d be a better leader, or because it was his destiny, or because he was told to do so by God, or whatever.

I guess, after all this, what’s missing is a sense of Vaylen ideology. If they extract most of their identity from their host(s), do they also pick up their hosts’ ideologies? If so, how does Vaylen society maintain any sort of self-actualization?

I’ve rambled on too long around a simple question: What are good guidelines for building actionable Vaylen beliefs that make the characters both complex and threatening?

p.

2

though i haven’t played a vaylan, in my experience, their beliefs should not be that different in character than normal human beliefs.

if the GM is controlling the vaylan, every vaylan belief should be aimed at a PC. from there it’s just thor’s 1,2,3

1 ideology
2 goal
3 method

think of the vaylan beliefs as ‘mirrors’ to the pcs beliefs. if pc A said ‘my wife was my one love, and the vaylan will pay for his detah’

vaylan - ‘PC A would be a great host, i will take over his body by trapping him with sexual innuendos’

if pc D has a belief ‘my manufacturing company will save our world, i will become a superpower by making things better, faster and more efficiently’

vaylan - ‘pc D is a threat to my people, i will destroy his power base by usurping control of his staff’

if pc K has a belief ‘my family comes before my job’

‘pc K would be a great military asset, i will turn him to my side by converting his wife to my cause’

they should not be individual entities. they should antagonize the players, as the GMs tools.

now, if someone out there is daring enough to play the Vaylan side as players…

i guess that would be a bit more dependent on what aspect of being ‘vaylan’ the players are all about… but i’d imagine it’s not that different than human beliefs. just with a different method and perhaps ideology because they come from a different perspective.

3

This is a good list. The Vaylen I’ve written up–NPCs, of course–generally hit the first and the third. They want to experience the emotions and physical reactions of being human. That’s why mood altering drugs, alcohol, pornography, but also fine works of art, perhaps songs and other ‘creative things’, are the commodities on a very lucrative black market trade system between Vaylen worlds and human worlds. They’re addicted to the stuff. And so they work to gain control of the source of their addiction. But once the Vaylen take over a human world, the creativity disappears. So they need to continue expanding to other human worlds. So the beliefs tied to this involve seeing and doing things “people wouldn’t believe.”
“Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain” (Roy Batty, Blade Runner)
This ties back to honoring the clan (and taking over planets) in that it’s the duty of a clan member to find more hosts for the clan so that they, too, can experience the thrill of human emotions and reactions.
It occurs to me that a cool story arc would involve the Vaylen on the cusp of total victory over humanity but then they seek the ultimate human experience: death!
Or, more humorously, vicarious death on the order of Bill Murray’s antics in Groundhog Day.
Mel

4

Excellent advice and it’s my general response on all NPCs as well. Here’s where I’m coming from:

In our current game we have no Vaylen. The Vaylen-side NPCs are all human and they have human desires. In the course of play, general themes have come out that help me guide NPC play. I have a character who’s driven by ambition (she’s an Anvil Lord), one driven by greed (he’s a crime boss), one driven by a mix of shame and paranoia (he’s a drug addict).

As I come up with Beliefs for those NPCs, yeah, I look first at the human side for inspiration on particular to-dos. PC #1 wants to become politically powerful? Oppose her power plays, or make them expensive. PC #2 wants to chase around heretics? Put the heretics in positions of power so it’s not as easy as putting a bullet in their head. And so on.

But once I have the to-dos, in my play style I feel it’s necessary to mold that to the NPC’s overarching theme. The greedy NPC will oppose PC #1 differently than the ambitious NPC. That creates consistency and, to my mind, better storytelling. Otherwise my NPCs are all over the board.

Having that overarching theme also lets me give the NPCs something to fight for. While the “oppose the PCs” rule is excellent, really good play also incorporates a strong counter-fight.

So it’s those overarching themes I’m trying to think through re Vaylen characters. I suppose they can be greedy, ambitious, shameful, zealous and all the rest. I’m just trying to think through the why of it all.

Second priority: Because I’ve probably got deep-seated Sim roots (for you Big Theory whackjobs out there) I like the game to honor its source material. Reading Chris’ work doesn’t give me much to work with other than the fact the Vaylen are utterly ruthless in their aims. And reading Luke’s work is highly suggestive but not quite gelling in my head.

So what do you think? What are the ideologies behind the Vaylen to-do items?

p.

5

honestly, i think (and i believe i’ve called you on this before in other threads) you are overanalyzing things. you’re focusing on the why too early in the play experience. in my experience, the coolest scenes i’ve had in BE (and BW) are the ones when the why hits me afterwards, or perhaps even during the scene.

i’m tottally down with you exploring the why of your Vaylen motivations, but i really feel that’s the point of the game, to explore the why.

that being said, i feel it should happen organically - perhaps even after the fact -as opposed to at the forefront. By working your beliefs based on why, you are shafting yourself out of the most beautiful part of the game that you’re playing.

sure, you could figure it out before hand, but part of the fun is getting smacked in the face with the revelation (ie. ‘because he wants to experience love of his mother from a child’s point of view’) in the middle of the most climactic scene in the game. it’s those moments that get your heart pounding. and maybe you don’t even understand it 'til you’ve had time to digest it. (getting hit with that on the train ride home from a session or while trying to fall asleep at night is AWESOME, let me tell you.)

i’m trying to expound on a subtle point, so i won’t keep going unless you want me to give examples.

i’m basically just saying, don’t worry TOO much about the why in writing the Vaylen beliefs. let the discovery of that be the Bangs in your scenes. now, if you want to talk about past situations that you’d like to theorize about, that’s tottally awesome. it’s like talking about a movie after you get out of the theater. for the rest, i suggest you just iron out beliefs as a way to antagonize your players, earn some persona, and then sit back and enjoy the ride. when why hits you, you’ll know what i mean.

6

I think I’m not expressing myself clearly.

The “why” is necessary to write a complete Belief. It’s the first half. The to-do items are easy enough; I’m looking for ideas/input/feedback on what people are putting into the “why” half of their Vaylens’ Beliefs.

I outlined four broad “whys” in my OP, and now I’m wondering if anyone has anything further to add.

But you make an excellent point as to the in-game discovery process. I agree it’s good stuff. But this thread is me asking for practical GM feedback/brainstorming.

And, yes, I’ll grant you that I may be overanalyzing. I’m not sure the most useful advice on this point is to say “stop overanalyzing.” To quote the Bard, Chris Rock: That’s like asking NWA to stop being black! :smiley:

EDIT: Might’ve been Dave Chappelle

p.

7

Hi Paul,

My thinking about the Vaylen is along the following lines. They have cultural traits which tend to place the good of the whole above the good of the individual. They have racial traits that are fashioned by their unique form of parasitism: I awake, suddenly, with a fully-made life-history and a host of strange emotions and sensations. Whether its in a Shudren or a Human, that experience is common to all Vaylen, and informs their world-view.

Beyond those “binding” characteristics, Vaylen are individuals, and range all over the map. You can have ambitious Vaylen, sensualists, rogues, outlaws, dedicated leaders, whatever you can imagine. I’d suggest picking one of those rather general individual characteristics to build your beliefs around, and let the cultural/racial flavor come out through play. A Vaylen who’s ambitious politically… how will that express itself? His host will have an influence. How will the ambition clash with the cultural trait of “the good of the many”?

-Chris

8

Hi Paul,

My thinking about the Vaylen is along the following lines. They have cultural traits which tend to place the good of the whole above the good of the individual. They have racial traits that are fashioned by their unique form of parasitism: I awake, suddenly, with a fully-made life-history and a host of strange emotions and sensations. Whether its in a Shudren or a Human, that experience is common to all Vaylen, and informs their world-view.

Beyond those “binding” characteristics, Vaylen are individuals, and range all over the map. You can have ambitious Vaylen, sensualists, rogues, outlaws, dedicated leaders, whatever you can imagine. I’d suggest picking one of those rather general individual characteristics to build your beliefs around, and let the cultural/racial flavor come out through play. A Vaylen who’s ambitious politically… how will that express itself? His host will have an influence. How will the ambition clash with the cultural trait of “the good of the many”?

-Chris

9

Chris,

Sweet! Now this is giving me more to chew on. I’m thinking that, with a fresh hull, mechanically speaking the Naiven would probably pick up the first couple Beliefs from the host and overwrite the third with a mission-specific Belief. Which makes choosing a host an interesting job for the worm wrangler – you wouldn’t want to snag a host with Beliefs detrimental to the greater good. Or you’d want to find a way to bend those Beliefs to the greater good, I suppose (hence the infiltration/usurpation themes running through the game).

Now…Vaylen being individuals. Presumably they only become individuals upon their first hulling, right? So you’ve probably got this population of first-time hulls who are predominantly still the “old” human (alongside a new “for the good of the clan” Belief). And you also have this population of Vaylen who have been, or are, many people at once. Experienced Vaylen could probably more completely overwrite their hosts’ Beliefs than Naiven would be capable of.

But would they? Do the Vaylen get to the point where they use bodies like a wardrobe, or does their thirst for humanness mean they actually desire picking up new Beliefs, getting embroiled into new melodramas, etc?

(gooderguy: This is where I agree with you that it’s better explored within the game than within the canon.)

Thanks for the input, Chris! Hope your Omac game is going/goes well!

p.

10

Your last post hints at some cool characters right out of the box, Paul. I’d say yes to all of your points… some driven, strong-willed, experienced vaylen will use new bodies like clothing, ruthlessly suppressing as much of the host’s personality as possible. Others will get swept away by the new-ness and power of the experience. Have fun with it.

Omac will begin on June 9th… can’t wait to play some Vaylen of my own :slight_smile:

Chris