Mike, I understand and you make good point(s) but to counter again. If you had the resources to buy the hammer cruisers during your lifepaths, then one could argue that if you didn’t spend those resources to date, you should be able to use those resources after the fact equally as well. Meaning, if you had the resources to buy 3 hammer cruisers before, and decided not to spend the resources but save them, then you should still have the resources to buy 3 hammer cruisers.
As far as the hammer trait goes…I agree with Sydney…it’s limited in scope and it’s seem to be a little vague on exact ship details but perhaps that may be on purpose.
I think some, perhaps many, of us desire details because we are used to games where you have specifics so you know if you have 3 hammer cruisers and the other guy has 2, you are most likely going to win the fleet engagement. With BE it seems that fleet stuff tends to be more oriented to color and small engagements since there isn’t any fleet engagement rules.
What a great discussion by the way. Many good thoughts posted.
My impression of setting the game up this way, as opposed to a more “intuitive” or “simulative” way is to force a choice into character creation: Do I spend a tiny number of points before the game and buy tech I may not be able to use (but I’m telegraphing I want to use!), or do I keep a BIG pool of points and deal with burning up valuable scene time in-game buying tech that’s customized to my actual needs?
It’s counterintuitive if you’re looking at RPs as cash money. It’s perfect if you’re looking at RPs as opportunity assets.
Certainly not more knowledgeable, but a thought on this: How useful is a Hammer Cruiser? I mean really useful. It’s big and impressive, but unless you’ve set up a fleet action scene then that Cruiser (or Dreadnaught or Destroyer or Death Star) is just color. Heck, it’s probably a whole setting at that point. There’s enormous potential packed into that Hammer Cruiser, but then again there’s enormous potential in a pistol pressed against the temple of a Figure of Note.
IMO a Hammer Cruiser is perfectly appropriate hard tech for a Lord-Pilot. What’s your Ob to summon him up (I’d call a Lord-Pilot “rare” or “unique” personally)? And how many scenes is he really gonna be able to rock out?
It’s an oportunity cost issue. You had the oportunity over the course of your life to pick up a small squadron of ships, but instead you invested it in a variety of non-liquid assets. Resource points don’t represent cash, they represent mansions, investments, factories, favours… By perminantly reducing your resource stat in order to get a single ship, you are increasing the difficulty of every subsequent roll in the game.
And Paul is entirely right. The game isn’t about the tools, the game is about the characters. If it’s important to your character to personally own a warship capable of demolishing planets… spend two RPs and you’ve got it. If it is important to your character to own a really nifty canteen that secretes booze laced with truth serum, pay two RPs to get it. Otherwise, use circles and find someone who made that RP sacrifice to help you for a bit.
And in BE, numbers aren’t really important because, as i stated above, the game’s about the characters, not the armies. Armies and fleets are tools your characters use. Firefight is more than capable of doing abstracted fleet battles, because is it important to know exactly how many ships were destroyed, what fleet had the higher accelleration, or even what exactly happened, or is it more important to know that after some ineffectual surpressive fire on both sides, your character’s brilliant flanking manouver smashed the enemy fleet and allowed your characters to punch through to the space station where the Vaylen were about to hull your dog?
One could argue, but in this case the game is very explicit on the matter. Think of it as a character creation discount, if you must. And again you’re conflating the RPs from your lifepaths with being the same as your Resources ability. It’s not, and trying to hinge any kind of argument on them being the same will get you nowhere.
If the character burned RP’s are completely different then I would make them different like calling them BRP’s or something because it’s sure is confusing at times when you read all the many new rules for the first time.
Chuckles…well I certainly understand the ‘opportunity’ angle as well. Which brings me to another point. If I did buy multiple hammer cruiser’s and decided to sell 1, would I receive the 20 resource points for it? Whether it be in the form or cash, fund, or resource it would be significant. In which case, your whole argument of opportunity is dismissed because you can convert from one to the other & vice versa. (resources/opportunity to hard tech & hard tech to resources/opportunity).
I must be the only nutcake who finds this whole resource issue extremely odd but thanks for humoring me anyway.
That sound you hear is me clapping. Yes, beautifully put. The rules aren’t particularly interested in how much a starfleet or a firearm or a nifty pair of cufflinks should cost in a realistic future economy (for that, read later editions of Traveller, if you can make head or tail of them). The rules are interested in how useful they are to what your character is doing.
Maybe the Hammer Cruiser and its four artillery-scale fusor batteries is absolutely the tool you need to get what you want: “Hand over the secret plans or we’ll blow you out of space!”
Or maybe the cruiser is useless because you’re two feet away from your adversary, and it’s that pistol’s human scale damage you need: “Hand over the secret plans or I blow your head off!”
Or maybe it’s the cufflinks, with their +2D to Persuasion: “What, these? My grandfather the late Archduke had these made for me when I graduated … Oh yes, those are real emeralds… Yes, it is rather nice worksmanip, isn’t it?.. Oh, no, you couldn’t just buy some, the jeweller has worked for my family for decades…Well, he’s terrribly busy, you know… Oh, the secret plans? Why, thank you. You’re too kind. You know, I’m sure that jeweller could work you in, now that I think about it… No, no, no trouble at all. More tea?”
No argument from me there, although you’d just end up with something like “Wealth Points” instead. For now, let’s go with that. With your WPs, you can buy stuff (fortresses, devices, weapons, armor, vehicles), or you can build up your Resources ability, one die at a time. Now stuff you’ll have whenever you need it, but you’ll only have that stuff. With Resources, you can get new stuff as needed, but maybe not as nice stuff as you could get if you took stuff to start with. But it’s a lot more flexible, since you can get what you need when you need it, and probably even lots more stuff overall.
Well, the easiest way would be to “trade” it for a fund or a loan. But why would you sell your cruiser?
No, it gives plenty of people pause, especially when coin-counting is far and away the norm for the genre.
Well…good luck finding a buyer. FOR SALE: One pre-loved Hammer Cruiser. All highway miles. Dealer maintained. Upgraded stereo, leather interior, minor cosmetic damage to rear quarter-panel. $200 billion OBO.
And re. confusing rules that mess with your understanding of how RPGs are “supposed” to work, amen to that! Agreed completely and unconditionally.
Yeah Paul…I know plenty of ‘new’ characters looking for them!
All I know is that I’m going to buy items like hammer cruisers and high cost vehicles and convert them back into resources which will give me the correct resources that my character should have when beginning play (IMO). Sure, the example I gave is a hammer cruiser but the same concept works just fine for lesser vehicles as well.
Merry Christmas everyone while I got a few minutes left!
