What does a Circles test get you?

[mistrlittlejeans]

I’m not sure if this is the correct place for this, but…

I recently ran a modified version of Delivering the Mail for a small group. Long story short the patrol of 3 mice got split at a certain juncture. The lone mouse decided to attempt to escort Loretta halfway to her destination (this was a modified mission so the locations are different than what is printed in the book). This was a long journey, an ob 3 Pathfinder test. The mouse failed so instituted a Weather Twist - Cold Spring Rain. The mouse failed his Health test and I made him Tired. I opted for Tired rather than Sick because the guardmouse used Rain-wise in his Pathfinder test. Anyways, because of the twist the guardmouse successfully escorted Loretta to the first location, but not all the way to her final destination, and now he was Tired. For the player’s final check he wanted to use Circles to find a guardmouse to help him escort Loretta all the way to her final destination. I thought this was a clever use of Circles, especially since the rest of his patrol were performing other duties, so I said Yes. Successful Circles, new guardmouse, and viola! Now… here’s where I don’t quite understand Circles. The new guardmouse is created, he is amenable to helping because of the successful test, BUT does the Player’s turn end there? or do we proceed with the Pathfinding test to get Loretta to her final destination? Or, does that final test require yet another check?

I opted for letting the player make the Pathfinder test with help from the guardmouse he found via Circles. He ended up succeeding somehow, which is fine. I just don’t know if I gave him a free test or not. In hindsight, starting the GM’s turn with a Pathfinding test to escort Loretta to her final destination would have made for a good mission.

So, that is long winded. Did I do things incorrectly?

[luke (Luke Wheel)]

Hello! You did the right thing. But assume the player’s Circles test buys a test for the character he brings in. Since you the GM don’t need to roll for NPCs unopposed, you can simply describe the escort (or lack of escort).

Good job!
-L

[Daniel_H]

Please bear with me, as I’m not totally clear on what transpired during your session.

@mistrlittlejeans

The lone mouse decided to attempt to escort Loretta halfway to her destination (this was a modified mission so the locations are different than what is printed in the book). This was a long journey, an ob 3 Pathfinder test. The mouse failed so instituted a Weather Twist - Cold Spring Rain. The mouse failed his Health test and I made him Tired. I opted for Tired rather than Sick because the guardmouse used Rain-wise in his Pathfinder test. Anyways, because of the twist the guardmouse successfully escorted Loretta to the first location, but not all the way to her final destination, and now he was Tired.

This was the Players’ Turn, correct? Why did the player choose to escort Loretta only halfway? Was it to test against a lower obstacle in exchange for using more checks to get to the final destination? Following a twist, the player still gets whatever he was after in the initial test. (Page 91: “Move the story forward as if the patrol had overcome the initial obstacle that caused the twist.” You may also want to re-read pages 75 and 76 under Twists in the Players’ Turn.)

For the player’s final check he wanted to use Circles to find a guardmouse to help him escort Loretta all the way to her final destination. I thought this was a clever use of Circles, especially since the rest of his patrol were performing other duties, so I said Yes. Successful Circles, new guardmouse, and viola! Now… here’s where I don’t quite understand Circles. The new guardmouse is created, he is amenable to helping because of the successful test, BUT does the Player’s turn end there? or do we proceed with the Pathfinding test to get Loretta to her final destination? Or, does that final test require yet another check?

If you Say Yes, no test is made (or recorded) and no check is spent. Part of game mastering Mouse Guard is uncovering where the most interesting conflict resides in overcoming a problem. So, at the point the player brings up circling up another guardmouse to assist his character, you have to decide if it is test-worthy, or if you’d rather move forward to another juncture.

Did the player want the circled up guardmouse to help him on the ensuing pathfinder test, or did he want the guardmouse to take Loretta off his paws? These factors should have affected the circles obstacle or, in the case of saying yes, your judgement. The Players’ Turn ends when the player has spent his last check, so it would have been fine for him to spend it testing circles and then for you to use the new situation to kick off a the next GM’s Turn mission.

I can’t quite tell if you gave the player a free check or not, although my reading is that he recorded the circles test even though you said yes to the idea. Regardless, I think this situation could have played out more smoothly, but it seems that you’re getting the idea about how it could have been structured differently.

EDIT: In other words, what Luke said.

[mistrlittlejeans]

I apologize for lack of clarity. By saying Yes, I meant that I thought the player’s idea of rounding up another guardmouse to help him escort Loretta was a good idea. To clarify further, the player chose to escort her partway because of the lower Ob. He failed that test anyways, so the weather twist ensued; for his final check he decided to find a guardmouse to assist him. I think Luke’s response clarifies it for me.

Success - the mouse agrees and helps with the escort
Failure - the mouse doesn’t help and is possibly offended by the proposition (Enmity Clause)

In retrospect, I would try to clarify more with the player exactly what they want out of the test. By my recollection, he was testing for a mouse to make the Pathfinder test for him; I didn’t know how to handle that situation (as in, what exponent of Pathfinder do I give the mouse?), so I recommended that the player make the test and receive help from the NPM. Luke’s explanation is a better way to handle it I think; however, I would probably discuss it with the player and see how they feel about using the escort as a jumping off point for the next mission. As it stands, we don’t have very much to go on at this point.

[Heathen]

Question re: the OP. I can see how the Successful Circles test grants the Guardmouse, but I can’t see anything in the rules about the gratis musical instrument? Am I missing something?

[mistrlittlejeans]

@spunkrat

Question re: the OP. I can see how the Successful Circles test grants the Guardmouse, but I can’t see anything in the rules about the gratis musical instrument? Am I missing something?

Haha. Nice catch. I meant “voila!”. As for the FREE test, Luke’s response clears that up; I think either way to play it is fine - have the guardmouse found by Circles make the test, which is unopposed and thus successful, OR start the next GM’s turn with a Pathfinding test to escort Loretta to her final destination. The first option seems to be the way Circles was intended to work.

In that case, a successful Circles test to find a healer not only finds the healer but allows the healer to make the necessary test for recovery or a condition? The healer still needs to pass the test to heal the mouse though, correct?

[Daniel_H]

@mistrlittlejeans

By my recollection, he was testing for a mouse to make the Pathfinder test for him; I didn’t know how to handle that situation (as in, what exponent of Pathfinder do I give the mouse?), so I recommended that the player make the test and receive help from the NPM.

@mistrlittlejeans

In that case, a successful Circles test to find a healer not only finds the healer but allows the healer to make the necessary test for recovery or a condition? The healer still needs to pass the test to heal the mouse though, correct?

In any rolplaying game I run, I try to minimize NPCs making tests in lieu of the PCs. Regardless, NPCs use the same factors as PCs when determining obstacles for their tests; the profiles in the Denizens chapter determine how many dice NPCs roll. Recovery tests are a situation where I would make sure to roll the NPC’s skill, because long-term complications for the player’s character are on the line.

[mistrlittlejeans]

@wanderer

In any rolplaying game I run, I try to minimize NPCs making tests in lieu of the PCs. Regardless, NPCs use the same factors as PCs when determining obstacles for their tests; the profiles in the Denizens chapter determine how many dice NPCs roll. Recovery tests are a situation where I would make sure to roll the NPC’s skill, because long-term complications for the player’s character are on the line.

I agree with you for the most part; however, the book has specific rules about Healers making tests for mouse recovery, OR a player can opt to forgo a healer and make the recovery test on their own. It seems prudent for a injured mouse to seek out an experienced healer because they have a better chance at success. However, if they are in the field with no healer nearby they will need to suck it up and recover on their own.

The reason I asked the question originally is because it seems very stingy to request a check to find a Healer,and ANOTHER check to have that Healer make a healer test on you. Likewise, what is the point of seeking out a healer if the wounded mouse is going to make the test on their own? I guess the Healer could offer help, but that seems a bit strange to me. Best on Luke’s post in this thread, I would interpret it as “if you pass a circles test to find a healer to help you recover, you indeed find the healer and they are willing to help you. Accepting help doesn’t cost an additional check as far as I know, so therefore the healer can make his/her heal test to help you recover”. That seems to be in the spirit of the rules. Rather than making a more risky recovery check, the mouse opts to use his clout/reputation to find help from a mouse skilled healer.

[Daniel_H]

While I don’t think I said anything that contradicts Luke or the rulebook, most of the patrols I’ve seen have a skilled healer to assume much of the burden.

[mistrlittlejeans]

@wanderer

While I don’t think I said anything that contradicts Luke or the rulebook, most of the patrols I’ve seen have a skilled healer to assume much of the burden.

I misread your post originally. Ideally the patrol would have a healer, especially if you want a more adventurous group. I was speaking more of the case in which the patrol does not have a healer.