Well i bought Mouse Guard a cuple of days ago and i must say it seams really cool.
The only thing i have a little problem with is how the Mission works and i wounder how you play your missions and stuff like that.
I’m from sweden and i’m kind of used to the more “free” rpgs, in other words the GM presents a scene and then the players does a little what ever they feel like.
For example:
You enter the room with caution, you can see a small table and some chairs. A bookshelf with some old books.
The players then acts like this:
Player1: I try to search to room for something intressting.
Player2: My character exits the room to go patroll the area so we don’t have “visitors”.
Player3: I start to read one of the books.
In Mouse Guard it’s more like present a scene and obstacle and give the player a solution to cross it.
If the succed or not present a new scene with a new obstacle.
It feels rather controlled and not free att all, maybe it’s just me.
But have you tried playing more free? And how much space is it for dialogs and rollplaying between obstacles? Do you need to present a scen with an obstacle or can you just present a scen and let them rollplay for a bit then continue to a scene with an obstacle?
Thank you for the answers in advance, and i’m sorry for all gramma and spelling errors. English is not my main language.
The “free” mode is what happens in the Player’s Turn. In the GM’s Turn, the GM confronts the patrol with obstacles they must deal with, problems with immediacy. And even then, the players get an opportunity to suggest an alternate way of dealing with the obstacle set before them by the GM, so there’s still some room for that. But ultimately, the point of the GM’s Turn is that there’s some crisis the patrol needs to resolve right away, and then (during their Turn) when there’s time to breathe, the patrol can operate in that “free” mode.
So to get a more normal feeling to it, i should switch between GM mode and Players turn a lot?
Do they still need to do skills checks for example: finding intressting things when they search a place?
The default is one GM turn and one player turn per game session. Sometimes people drift that to 2 each. During the GM’s turn players earn checks by using their own traits against themselves. During the player’s turn the players spend those checks to do things.
Yeah but xD That makes it more complicated, then how should i go about to make the game more free instead of going from obstacle to obstacle?
It feels rather… controlling. Like ok now we done that whats the next one? Rolls more dice
Hi Siffner,
It seems that Mouse Guard isn’t the game for you group, but let me ask you a question.
Have you read the book, particularly the first chapter?
Luke, you may be right, but maybe it’s just me that don’t know how this game is played and how the GM is suppose to act to get the dialoges between the chars with this kind of mission system.
xD Rather hars answer. Not yet, why?
We willing to try something new but we really like to chatt between our characters? I thought the game was focused on characters and rollplaying? Or is the standards of this diffrent in America?
The GM’s Turn is largely about the players and GMs cooperating to make an interesting story. That’s the best I can summarize it as. The players try to overcome obstacles, and have freedom in how they do so. The GM makes things really interesting for them. Then, in the Players’ Turn, the players get to add to the story. The game’s not really about the GM setting out a challenge to the players as it is about the GM presenting the characters with an interesting situation to roleplay in. And then the players, in their turn, expand the story and create new plot points.
I have read the Mission chapter, thats why i’m sceptic.
CarpeGuitarrem, maybe i’m just worring since i haven’t tryed how it works or gotten any experience.
I have sended a message to -Ice asking if he might consider to let me try Mouse Guard with him over the Internet.
Hopefully he will let my try and i can get a bether feel on how it works.
What I’m trying to say is: Two me it feels like the GM just describes a scene and an obstacle and the players roll some dice say a few words and of they go to the new scen with a new obstacle, roll some dices and BAM the Adventure is over. ( I know about Twists, but just showing an example ): Maybe it’s just me but it feels like in GM’s turn players rollplaying is rather limited or short.
Am i wrong? Please say that i am, because this game looks so darn cool.
Here’s a good example of how a Mouse Guard mission actually plays out at the table. This is the Deliver the Mail mission from the book. While MG play definitely has a structure to it, there’s quite a bit of room for the players to wing it. Adding twists will send things off into new directions as well. Of course, if you demand that all your games conform to a model of just describing the location and waiting for the players to decide what they do, MG may not be your cup of tea. But I suggest trying it out first. I would be sure I had a good understanding of the Designing a Mission section and how Twists work.
No Clue:
That seams extremly helpfull. So let’s say when they first sett of from Lockhaven to Blackrock to deliver a mail or message to the administration of Blackrock on how well the Winter supplyes is getting along, Let’s say a character uses a Scout( or is it Pathfinder ) test to ensure they are wandering the right road to Blackrock. The obstacle is a Ob4
and unfortuate the player only gets 2 succeses. This is a fail and i can introduce a twist into the adventure, in this case they stirr a little offroad and suddenly find themself before a badger hole( or some other animal ). They can like set a camp before i introduce the twist( Like the crow twinst in the topic you sent me) just as they have finished eating their soup consisting of nuts and… water? (Ewww) they hear a strange noise from the bushes behind them, it’s one of the badgers! ( I introduce the Badger twist )?
If they set “camp” for the night must i alow them to spend their checks ( Not like they have earned any yet )?
Did i get the gameplay right this time? If it’s the case then i don’t need to introduce the new twist right away? I can let them wander a bit and chatting between the character untill they set a camp for the night, then i can let them chatter a little bit more before introducing the twist? or do i need to do it right away?
Siffner, I hate to plug, but I created [-Actual-Play-GM-s-Turn-and-Player-s-Turn"]an Actual Play thread](http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?7315-[Mouse-Guard) specifically to show people that the GM’s Turn/Players’ Turn structure doesn’t have to be detrimental to roleplaying. Maybe it will help you out?
To me blazing trails is a Pathfinder test, being stealthy and surviving in the wilderness is a Scout test. But, that question is really up to you as GM. Other players can help with wises too, I believe.
The obstacle is a Ob4
and unfortuate the player only gets 2 succeses. This is a fail and i can introduce a twist into the adventure, in this case they stirr a little offroad and suddenly find themself before a badger hole( or some other animal ).
Awesome twist!
They can like set a camp before i introduce the twist( Like the crow twinst in the topic you sent me) just as they have finished eating their soup consisting of nuts and… water? (Ewww) they hear a strange noise from the bushes behind them, it’s one of the badgers! ( I introduce the Badger twist )?
This would look more like this:
Player: I rolled only two successes. Failure!
GM: Okay, so you’re following a game trail that you believe heads towards Blackrock. That night during dinner you hear a strange noise from the bushes!..Badgers!"
If they set “camp” for the night must i alow them to spend their checks ( Not like they have earned any yet )?
Nope. GM’s turn isn’t over yet.
Did i get the gameplay right this time? If it’s the case then i don’t need to introduce the new twist right away? I can let them wander a bit and chatting between the character untill they set a camp for the night, then i can let them chatter a little bit more before introducing the twist? or do i need to do it right away?
That’s totally up to you. I find twists generally work better for me if you narrate right to them (like I show above), rather than letting the players wander around until they find it. But you might be able to build suspense while the players wait knowing that the twist is coming.
Filling an hour or more tends not to be a problem. Generally there’s time spent meeting with Gwendolyn and getting the mission and preparing to set off. Your simple Pathfinder test is a common way to start things off, with players roleplaying their helping (and hindering with traits). Failure would trigger a twist, like your animal conflict. Conflicts take quite a bit of time. Success could mean that the road to Blackrock is easy to find, but they see the badger tracks near the road. So, the next obstacle is an animal obstacle. This may engender some roleplay and conflict between party members depending upon goals and beliefs. One may want to complete the mission, while someone else may feel its the Guard’s duty to make sure the roads are safe. So, another conflict maybe, or maybe not. Then maybe some tests to track the badger and deal with it. Simple tests this time like scouting to sneak up on the beast (remember they have to roleplay helping and hindering here), with failure leading to conditions. Maybe Scientist roll to trap the beast. Maybe a Fight test to drive it off.
Once they get to Black rock you could have a Mice obstacle ready. Maybe they’re in cahoots with the weasels and think the Guards mice are there because the Guard suspects them. More conflicts or tests ensue, hopefully invovling the characters BIGs in interesting ways that spark roleplay from the players.
Noclue:
Hm, so a good way is to introduce them to the obstacle and ofcourse the default solution and then let the Rolplay it out( The reaction ofcourse )? I can see how that can bring the GM’s turn to 1 hour, then challange the Goals, Beliefs and Instincts together with some twists can bring it to around 2 hours. Hmm, i think im slowly getting how this works xD
But for now lets say my example is right, in the rolplaying of the characters they start to think of other ways to overcome the obstacle? In the book it says that players can comme with surgestions on how to overcome an obstacle, is this what the book ment?
Oh and what if the patroll sucess on all obstacles ( Default is 2 i think )? Is it ok for me to introduce a new obstacle in the adventure? or should i make one obstacle really hard to overcome to ensure that they fail atleast once?
I suggest looking at the Factors in the skill section. When I GM Mouse Guard I never make up an Obstacle number. I always look up the Skill and add up the Factors. When you do that you rarely come up with an Ob less than 4 and usually quite higher.
Lower level Ob usually come during the Player’s Turn when they’re attempting much simpler things under more ideal conditions.
Mouse Guard is deceptively brutal. After several sessions I basically nicknamed the game “Failing Towards Conflict.” What tends to happen (note: TENDS, not always) is that the Ob for routine Obstacles are so high that the GM keeps piling on Twists, roll after roll after roll until one of two things happens:
The players get lucky and actually succeed at a routine obstacle.
OR
A twist actually falls into a full fledged Conflict. Conflicts are actually MUCH easier to succeed at and also tend to produce more interesting story results.
So a game usually looks like this:
Fail->Twist->Fail-Twist->Fail->Twist->CONFLICT! (Deep Breath, New Obstacle) Fail->Twist->Fail->Twist->Fail->Twist->CONFLICT! (End GM Turn) (Begin Player Turn)
Any tips?