Iron TO&E

I’ve been thinking about what parts would make up an Iron unit. I thought it might be fun to know what the Table of Organization and Equipment might look like. I know just enough about military organization to make broad generalizations. I’m sure I won’t get some of the details right but that’s why I’m asking for help.

Let’s start in the days of the Federated Empires and maybe the early Hanrilke era. They would have had the resources to fund massive iron formations.

I could see fielding Iron divisions. Would there be a need for Iron corps? I’d presume an Iron corps would have multiple Iron brigades along with other supporting assets.

An Iron division would have a couple brigades of Iron, maybe a brigade or 2 of Anvil, as well as anti-air/anti-space capability, intelligence, supply, repair, signals and something like artillery (long range fire support) as well of course with an HQ. I even think an Iron division might incorporate tanks. Call that a “heavy” Iron division.

I’m not sure if Iron would incorporate its own space transport assets. Maybe that would be a Forged Corps. Maybe there would be shuttles at the Anvil corps level but nothing interstellar or interplanetary. I would think there would be terrestrial aviation assets, for recon, strike, med-evac, etc. Again, maybe at the corps level you could launch satellites for recon.

I wonder what the “tooth to tail ratio” of an iron division would be? I imagine the Federated Empires had something like Foam for Iron. You could very quickly repair Iron with nanotech in that way. Perhaps Foam for Iron would fix a lot of things, but some critical components (Fusion reactors, maybe) would require hands on repair/replacement. You’d need to have stores of these items as spare parts. Some things would no doubt require a trip to a repair depot. Iron itself runs on water as I recall. All that leads me to believe that Supply would be for the benefit of the soldiers. I’d think Anvil would be the same way. You have foam to repair armor and weapons, some spares, and the rest is care and feeding of people. I think an Iron division would very toothy and have a short tail. This would make them easier to transport and very fast, both of which would increase the effectiveness of an iron division.

If there is no Foam for Iron even in the time of the Federated Empire, then Supply and Repair will become especially crucial components of the division and the size and weight of the “tail” will increase dramatically.

The US Army composes armor divisions of an Armor brigade and an infantry brigade, according to this TO&E. I assume Iron is much like tanks (though obviously more flexible in that it is much more effective if supported by (in this case) Anvil.

So what would an Iron company look like? The TO&E for US Army tank batallion (unit below a division) is 3 armor companies and an HQ. So how many Iron units? 15? 20? They should have a couple transport units (Assault Sleds?) along with some heavy weapons (also air mobile).

An Anvil Company (thinking 3-4 rifle companies to a batallion in US Army) would be what, a 100 troops, with transport assets and some heavy weapons and crews for them as well. They might have specialized equipment if companies are given special jobs. Otherwise, they’d all look pretty much the same.

Now let’s move on the time of the Iron Empires.

Iron should be more rare. There are less places it can be created and less people that know how to do it even if facilities are available. Iron would have already had a high status in the popular imagination. Now it would be like magic from the past. Fielding Iron in any way would be a huge psychological advantage. If you have a Landwher company whose leader wears Iron, it’s now an “Iron company.” So, good intelligence becomes paramount; knowing how close your enemies could to the old Federated TO&E could be the difference between offering battle or asking for further time to negotiate a peace treaty.

Foam for Iron is probably more rare. Foam (that heals people) inside of Iron self-regenerates. Foam for Iron probably does the same, but if you run out you’ll have to ask for a boon of Foam. No foam and you have to repair Iron “the old fashioned way.” Again, this will serve to make the tooth to tail ratio in the Iron Empires tend more towards tail than in the Federated era.

People who can repair Iron are valuable. They must either be turned to your service or eliminated so as to “hollow out” core elements of the enemy’s force structure. Alternatively, there might be something of a code that says so long as you don’t attack my stentors, I won’t attack yours.

That’s about it. I welcome your thoughts and comments.

Cheers,
Billy

Paging Sydney Freedberg, Mr Freedberg, you have a telephone call at the front desk.

So I am curious what you plan on doing with this info?

Thanks,

  • Don

I hadn’t heard that name before so I googled it. Here was one article I found about infantry soldiers being treated as systems. Thanks for the hint. :slight_smile:

I think a people’s way of making war says a lot about their society. The ancient Celts fought wars in one way and the Romans in another. There was no Roman Boudica as far as I know. By the same token, there was no Roman Patton. There were great Roman generals, but there were no great Romans who led armored divisions for obvious reasons.

I would think a greater understanding of the Iron Empires way of war would lead to different decisions as part of world burning, Beliefs creation, everything, really. Once I know what is in the box, I am better able to think outside of it if that’s what I want to do.

He posted here quite a bit when BE first came out.

e.g.
http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3845&page=5

FYI, in case you weren’t aware: that TOE is out of date, now that the Army has modularized. Each division is now constructed as 3-4 brigade combat teams (BCTs), which are more self-contained than brigades under earlier force structures.

Which is actually more like what I imagine the operational concept to be in the Iron Empires, based on the graphic novels. (I’ve only played BE once, last summer.)

There are two primary types of organizations in the IE, the Anvil Battalion and the Planetary Defense Force (Landwehr, Militia… it’s called lots of different things depending on the world in question). The Anvil Battalion is a relatively compact outfit designed to fight on OTHER worlds, and is privately maintained by an Anvil or Forged Lord. It’s generally grav-mobile with organic troop transports (that are banned by law and custom from mounting anything bigger than Vehicular scale weapons). Battalion is a flexible term (like the old Regiment). It can be anywhere from 3-10+ Companies in strength, depending on the specifics of the title the commanding Lord is granted. Militia will be organized much more like the big standing armies of the cold war. They are, by law, not equipped with anything more than Anvil armor (and line units will rarely have that), and have no ability to leave their planet.

Oh, and here’s a sample of Syd Freedberg’s current IE thinking (apologies for the text format, the original is a huge Excel workbook:

Grav-Mobile Battalion Overview & HQ
Company Type Personnel (per co.) Vehicles (per co.)
3 Armored Infantry (Grav Mechanized) 202 21
Grav Tank 165 22
1 Grav Tank (Hussar) 145 22
Iron (Grav Mechanized) 138 23
1 Iron (Hussar) (Grav Mechanized) 118 23
1 Combat Engineer (Grav Mechanized) 135 14
1 Military Police (Grav Mobile) 222 71
Line Infantry (Grav Mobile) 232 46

7	Combat Arms Companies		
1722	Total Personnel		
339	Total Vehicles		
			
Grav-Mobile Battalion Headquarters and Support Element									
496	personnel								
146	vehicles								
									
1	Headquarters Group (3 GAUS-C plus one per combat company)								
	66	personnel							
	10	vehicles							
									
	1	Battalion Command	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Battalion Commander Lord-Colonel Anvil Laser rifle Boosted Coms
1 Battalion Executive Officer Lt. Colonel Anvil Laser rifle Boosted Coms
1 Battalion Chief of Staff Major Ballistic rifle Boosted Coms
1 Deputy Chief of Staff Captain Ballistic rifle
1 Quartermaster Captain Ballistic rifle Medical Kit
1 Chaplain-Commissar Captain Ballistic rifle Psychologist
1 Intelligence Officer Captain Ballistic rifle
10 Battalion Staff Officer Lieutenant Ballistic rifle
7 Battalion Staff NCO Sergeant Ballistic rifle
2 Bodyguard Sergeant Anvil Laser rifle Medical Kit
10 GAUS-C Armored Utility Vehicle Medium vehicle Medium Heavy Laser (turreted) Command, Control, and Communications Suite
10 GAUS-C Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot / Commander Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol
1 Coms Tech Specialist Ballistic rifle
1 Sensor Tech Specialist Ballistic rifle

1	Maintenance Group (1 GAUS-M, plus one per combat company, plus one additional per Iron company)								
	60	personnel							
	10	vehicles							
									
	1	Group Command	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Group Leader Lieutenant Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
1 Group Sergeant Sergeant Ballistic pistol
1 GAUS-C Armored Utility Vehicle Medium vehicle Medium Heavy Laser (turreted) Command, Control, and Communications Suite
1 GAUS-C Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot / Commander Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol
1 Coms Tech Specialist Ballistic rifle
1 Sensor Tech Specialist Ballistic rifle
9 GAUS-M Armored Utility Vehicle Medium vehicle Medium Heavy Laser (turreted) Mobile Repair Shop; Tow Cradle
9 GAUS-M Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Maintenance Tech Sergeant Ballistic pistol
3 Maintenance Apprentice Specialist Ballistic rifle
1 Pilot Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol

1	Medical Group (1 Medical Section plus one per combat company)								
	56	personnel							
	9	vehicles							
									
	1	Group Command	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Group Leader Lieutenant Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
1 Group Sergeant Sergeant Ballistic pistol
2 Clerk Specialist Ballistic rifle
1 GAUS-C Armored Utility Vehicle Medium vehicle Medium Heavy Laser (turreted) Command, Control, and Communications Suite
1 GAUS-C Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot / Commander Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol
1 Coms Tech Specialist Ballistic rifle
1 Sensor Tech Specialist Ballistic rifle

	8	Medical Section	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Camp Doctor Warrant Ballistic pistol Enhanced Medical Kit
3 Medic Specialist Ballistic pistol Enhanced Medical Kit
8 GAUS-MED Utility Vehicle Small vehicle Light none Medical Vehicle
8 GAUS Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot / Commander Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol

1	Engineering Group (1 Crane / Digger and 1 Heavy Lift Sled, plus one of each per combat company)								
	87	personnel							
	18	vehicles							
									
	1	Group Command	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Group Leader Lieutenant Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
1 Group Sergeant First Sergeant Ballistic pistol Enhanced Repair Kit
1 Group Mechanic Sergeant Ballistic pistol Enhanced Repair Kit
2 Mechanic Apprentice Specialist Ballistic rifle Repair Kit
2 GUS Utility Vehicle Small vehicle Light none
2 GUS Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot Private Ballistic pistol
8 Crane / Digger Sled Excavation & Salvage Large vehicle Light Heavy Laser (turreted) Multifunction Crane / Digging Arm
8 Crane / Digger Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Mechanic / Commander Sergeant Ballistic rifle Enhanced Repair Kit
1 Operator Specialist Ballistic pistol
1 Pilot Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol
1 Mechanic Apprentice Private Ballistic rifle Repair Kit
8 Heavy Lift Sled Recovery & Transport Large vehicle Light Heavy Laser (turreted) Heavy Tow Cradle
8 Heavy Lift Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Mechanic / Commander Sergeant Ballistic rifle Enhanced Repair Kit
1 Pilot Corporal Ballistic pistol
1 Gunner Private Ballistic pistol
2 Mechanic Apprentice Private Ballistic rifle Repair Kit

1	Transport Group (one Transport Section plus 1 per combat company)								
	102	personnel							
	82	vehicles							
									
	1	Group Command	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Group Leader Lieutenant Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
1 Group Sergeant Sergeant Ballistic pistol
2 Clerk Specialist Ballistic rifle
2 GUS Utility Vehicle Small vehicle Light none
2 GUS Crew
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot Private Ballistic pistol
8 Transport Section Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Section Leader Sergeant Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
1 Clerk Specialist Ballistic rifle Boosted coms
80 GUS Utility Vehicle Small vehicle Light none
80 GUS Crew

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot Private Ballistic pistol

1	Administrative Group (1 Clerical Section and 1 Comfort Section, plus one of each per combat company)								
	125	personnel							
	17	vehicles							
									
	1	Group Command	

Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Group Leader Lieutenant Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
1 Group Sergeant Sergeant Ballistic pistol
2 Clerk Specialist Ballistic rifle
8 Clerical Section
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Senior Clerk Corporal Ballistic pistol Boosted coms
10 Clerk Specialist Ballistic rifle
8 Comfort Section
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Senior Guard Corporal Ballistic pistol oversees variable number of comfort assets
1 Guard Private Ballistic rifle Stun Batons
17 GUS Utility Vehicle Small vehicle Light none
17 GUS
Role Rank Armor Weapon Special
1 Pilot Private Ballistic pistol

Maybe you can tell me more after looking at what Chris just posted. :slight_smile:

Thank you for the tip on the outdated TO&E. I just grabbed the first thing I could find as a starting place.

Wow, Chris, thank you! I’ve got about a million questions but I’ll only ask a couple. But first, I love the details. It only makes sense, for instance, that units would have a chaplain. It seems so obvious now! I’m also really glad to see construction units in there.

  1. Law and customer wouldn’t prevent an Anvil Lord or Forged Lord from wearing their personal Iron, I presume, even in an “on planet” force, right?

  2. If you can’t have Iron in an “on planet” force, that should serve to make the church quite an ally. The Cotar Fomas and his soldalis have no such restriction, right?

I love little details like Battalion being an apparently precise technical term that can really mean a number of different things. Thanks again!

Billy

Hi Billy,

  1. Baron Sheva wears iron while commanding the Taramai Landwehr in Sheva’s War. It’s one of a noble’s rights to wear iron whenever and where-ever he likes.

  2. The church is orgainized like a parallel peerage, with similar rights and priviledges to the nobility. So yes, it’s a major player when you’re putting together an army of barons to go stomp your neighbors.

  3. From the internets:

“Usually a medieval army was divided into three sections (called “Battle” or “Battalion”). The first section (first battle) or vanguard was composed of archers (or crossbowmen) and footwarriors. The second section (center) was composed of footwarriors and “heavy” cavalry, this section was built by the main troops. The third section (rearguard) consisted of “light” (more agile) cavalry.”

A battalion, in the medieval sense of the word, could contain any number of smaller units. IE battalions are like that.

-Chris

Paging Sydney Freedberg, Mr Freedberg, you have a telephone call at the front desk.

[looking around frantically ] Whoop! I’m awake, I’m awake. [/looking around]

I’ve been churning away quietly on a bunch of stuff, including battalion MTO&Es, in communication with Chris and Luke. (I’ll leave it up to them how much more of that to go into at this point; I’ll stick to MTO&E for now).

Basically, my current thinking on an Iron platoon goes like this:

Iron Platoon (Grav-Mechanized)
27 personnel
4 vehicles

Iron Platoon
27 personnel
4 Grav IFVs with 8 crew
19 dismounts in Iron armed with:
3 sniper lasers
3 fusors (anti-armor)
3 particle accelerators (anti-personnel)
2 heavy laser (anti-everything)
8 laser rifles

1 Platoon Command:
1x Platoon Leader: Lieutenant: Iron: Laser rifle
1x Platoon Stentor: First Sergeant: Iron: Laser rifle
1x Platoon Medic: Sergeant: Iron: Laser rifle

3 Iron Section, each of
1x Section Leader: Sergeant: Iron: Laser rifle
1x Scout/Sniper: Corporal: Iron: Sniper laser
1x Anti-Armor Gunner: Corporal: Iron: Fusor (manpack)
1x Anti-Personnel Gunner: Corporal: Iron: Particle Accelerator (manpack)

1 Weapons Section:
1x Section Leader: Sergeant: Iron: Laser rifle
1x Sensor Tech: Specialist: Iron: Laser rifle
2x Heavy Laser Gunner: Corporal: Iron: Heavy Laser (on Grav Pod)

4x Grav IFV: Infantry Fighting Vehicle
4x IFV Crew, each of:
1x Pilot / Commander: Corporal: Ballistic: pistol:
1x Gunner: Private: Ballistic: pistol:
:

By contrast, an “Anvil” (i.e. Anvil-armor wearing) platoon has about the same number of heavy weapons, but a lot more grunts with laser rifles:

Armored Infantry Platoon (Grav-Mechanized)
45 personnel
4 Grav IFVs with 8 crew
37 dismounts in Anvil armed with:
3 sniper lasers
3 multiple missile launchers (anti-armor; inferior to fusor, but manportable without powered armor)
3 particle accelerators (anti-personnel)
3 heavy lasers (one more than Iron platoon has)
25 laser rifles

1 Platoon Command
1x Platoon Leader: Lieutenant: Anvil: Laser rifle
1x Platoon Sergeant: First Sergeant: Anvil: Laser rifle
1x Platoon Medic: Sergeant: Anvil: Laser rifle

3 Infantry Section
1x Section Leader: Sergeant: Anvil: Laser rifle
1x Medic: Specialist: Anvil: Laser rifle
1x Sensor Tech: Specialist: Anvil: Laser rifle
1x Scout/Sniper: Corporal: Anvil: Sniper laser: :
1x Anti-Armor Gunner: Corporal: Anvil: Multiple Missile Launcher
1x Anti-Personnel Gunner: Corporal: Anvil: Particle Accelerator (manpack)
3x Riflemen: Private: Anvil: Laser rifle: :

1 Heavy Weapons Section
1x Section Leader: Sergeant: Anvil: Laser rifle
3x Heavy Laser Gunner: Corporal: Anvil: Heavy Laser (on Grav Pod)
3x Assistant Gunner: Private: Anvil: Laser rifle

4x Grav IFV: Infantry Fighting Vehicle
4x IFV Crew, each of:
1x Pilot / Commander: Corporal: Ballistic: pistol: :
1x Gunner: Private: Ballistic: pistol

Note the assumption is you have Grav Infantry Fighting Vehicles that can carry 10 combat-equipped infantry, or half as many troops in Iron (or presumably 15-20 guys without equipment if you just pack 'em in). The platoon leadership breaks up, so the Platoon Leader rides with the 1st squad, the Platoon Sergeant/Stentor rides with 2nd squad, the medic rides with 3rd squad, and then the Weapons Squad doesn’t have any leadership riding with it but needs the extra room for those bulky Heavy Lasers and their grav pods.

Luke, Chris, how much more of this MTO&E stuff do you want to start posting at this point?

P.S.: Some links to articles I’ve written in my non-SF capacity:

Army National Guard
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2007/1214nj1.htm
or
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1207/122607nj1.htm

Rules of engagement
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2007/1012nj1.htm
or
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1007/101207nj1.htm

Iraq & Afghanistan medals for valor
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2007/0112nj1.htm
or
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0207/021607nj1.htm

Uparmored Humvees & their limitations
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0307/032607nj1.htm

Future US Air Force bomber
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0807/081507nj1.htm

Future tank
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/092006nj1.htm

Future infantry
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0406/042406nj1.htm

P.S.:

Iron’s really a form of super-heavy infantry. Yeah, a guy in Iron is stronger, faster, and harder to kill than Anvil-armored troops, but he still fights like a human being. By contrast, the Iron Empires setting DOES have grav armored vehicles, e.g. the Grav IFVs in “Faith Conquers” (described by the “Anvil Assault Sled” in the game), and they’re an order of magnitude stronger, faster, and tougher… and an order of magnitude easier to hit, too.

The fundamental difference between cavalry/tanks and an infantryman, in whatever form and whatever era, is the cav/armor can go a lot faster and further, even under enemy fire, when not under cover, but the infantry can take cover much, much better and therefore tend to survive longer – not that any individual infantryman can’t get snuffed out like a wet match, mind you, but the infantry as a group can keep fighting long after the cavarly or tanks are run off the field.

The Excel worksheet from which my posts were drawn isnow available on the downloads page of the wiki, and I’ve started a thread to discuss it
here.

Sooo, does a Lord Anvil command his Anvil Battalion and the local Planetary Defense Force Brigade? The plot/force pool thickens!

Unfortunately, Taramai didn’t have an Anvil Battalion. The Karsan League isn’t typical of the other Iron Empires, but there are small worlds in all Empires that can’t support interplanetary forces. The rules of those worlds will command the local forces.

-Chris

Hopefully this one is fresh enough to not be considered necromancy…

Hi Chris,

This is very interesting to me!

I was wondering what restrictions people had imagined were placed on a noble’s right to bear arms. If an Anvil Lord rolls up to court in his armour will s/he get funny looks because s/he is in armour - or because s/he is not wearing a fashionable wig?

I assume that trying to deny a noble their sidearms is both futile and improper, but will a Lord Steward be forced by tradition to allow the peers to clomp around the court in their powered armour?

I realise that these issues are resolvable with Court-wise rolls in-game, but I do wonder what court is like in Chris’ head (I seem to recall that Trevor faith didn’t clank up to the Steward in Faith Conquers).

Cheers,

True, there are probably structural reasons why wearing Iron inside doesn’t make sense, (as well as propriety). Iron is often worn on ceremonial occasions, and, in game, when visiting a GM FON whom you suspect wants to drag you off and hull you, arriving for an interview dressed in Iron and with four armored Pilots by your side, carrying gold-plated PaC’s can be framed as a “ceremonial delegation”.

-Chris

AMEN!

There’s actually a scene in Faith Conquers where Trevor Faith pulls something rather like this, showing up with four troopers in full Iron to some ceremony involving the Lord-Constable when everyone else, except the Constable’s ceremonial guard, appears to be in civilian clothes.

I need to burn up Gold-plated Ceremonial Fusors. Devastator trait and an advantage die for Etiquette tests.