Self-Propelled Artillery?

Burning Empires Tech Burner
1

EDIT: The stats in this thread are rough drafts: Please see the final versions of the Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic), SWARM rounds, and Active Defense Against Projectiles from the wiki.

I’d like to burn up some self-propelled artillery pieces, like those featured in the friendly-fire incident in Sheva’s War (although I’d probably make them low index instead of zero index).

Except I’m stuck: “Artillery mounts cost +3 pts and require a minimum Integrity of 7.” (p. 384) but no grav vehicle listed in the book has an Integrity greater than 6. The only 7s are for the Air Bus and Shuttles.

I suppose I could play around with “more powerful” and/or “categorical limitation” (e.g. “can’t fire on the move” would be very appropriate). Or I could just sigh and restrict myself to SCREM launchers (which are vehicular-class weapons but get the “Indirect” trait). But I’d love guidance and suggestions.

By the way, I’m well aware that in the Iron Empires, the best artillery support is going to come from Hammer gunboats in orbit. I’m primarily trying to work out a relatively low-powered but highly mobile and respoonsive indirect fire asset that, say, a company commander could have directly under his control, much like the organic mortar carriers in the Army’s Stryker “combined arms company.”

2

Why not just use the Missile? It is self-propelled artillery.

3

The missile listed on pg. 518 has the “Mounted” trait – which means, as I understand it, that it needs to be mounted on something, and since it’s an Artillery-scale weapon, that presumably needs to be a vehicle with Integrity 7 or higher – hence my stuckness.

Now, most of the time, you’d simply make a Resources roll (or whatever) to get the missiles and have them “off board,” firing long range, and not worry about what they’re mounted on, but I’d like to be able to Burn up the whole thing for completeness’ sake – and in case someone says, “Ok, I want to wipe out your artillery now.”

4

Simple it says in the description that Integrity is essentially a vehicle’s Forte stat. So take the Anvil Ground Car (Integrity 5), and use the Tech Burner section Device: Technological Stat to buy 2D of Forte. Forte costs 6 points for 1D, plus 2 points for each additional die. It would cost 8 points to bring the Anvil Ground Car’s Integrity to 7.

cheers!

5

Oooh… coolness. That’s a very useful trick for a whole range of things besides this one query.

Does increasing integrity like that have any impact on the Superficial/Breach/Major/Destroyed damage traits?

6

Oh, wait – I don’t think Technological Stat: Forte will work:

“Forte costs 6 pts for 1D, +2 pts per additional die. This device has a biomechanical set of organs and internal functions. It may recover from Injury. High index required.” (p. 389)

7

Sydney, you’re not increasing Forte, though. You’re hacking the Forte increase to mimic an Integrity increase.

-L

8

Aaaah. I’m being too literal-minded.

But screw using the Anvil Ground Car as a basis – even Lady Sheva’s mediocre Taramai Landwehr had grav-mobile SP guns! (At least, that’s what I deduce from looking closely at the one panel showing them). So:

Multiple Missile Launcher Sled (MMLS)
Type: Atmospheric Vehicle (Pilot)
Capacity: 2 crew (pilot and artillerist)
Tech Index: Low index and higher
Tech Resources Ob 16
Profile 2
Integrity 7
Control +1 Ob
Signals Automation 3
Sensors Automation 3
Ordnance Artillery
Vehicular Speed Atmospheric 5
Security none
Structural Tolerances: Surface, H8. Breach, V1. Damaged, V7. Destroyed, V14.

(Templated on Anvil Assault Sled)

Traits:

Reinforced Chassis
(+1 Integrity bought as +1D Forte, +6 points)

Artillery Mount
(+3 points to add Artillery Mount)
(-4 points to remove both Vehicular-Scale Ordnance mounts??)

Multiple Missile Launcher
(Missile artillery weapon from p. 518, 0 points because it’s the default weapon, and for Sub Index at that)
(Upgrade from Single-Shot to Magazine, +3 points)

Flies like a Brick
(-1 Speed, -2 points; Ob +1 to Control = -2 points)

Cannot fire in flight
(Conditional Limitation, -1 point)
The MMLS cannot launch its missiles while in flight: It must land on a reasonably solid surface and devote its grav field to absorbing recoil. If a unit containing MMLS uses them in a Direct Fire or Suppressive Fire maneuver in Firefight, that unit cannot script Flank, Advance, or Withdraw on its next volley.

Limited secondary weapons
(??Conditional Limitation, -1 point??)
Normally a vehicle with an Artillery Mount has a secondary weapon on the Vehicular scale: The MMLS has only a Squad Support-scale weapon as secondary armament.

No cargo or passengers
(Conditional Limitaiton, -1 point)

9

Lady Sheva’s mediocre Taramai Landwehr had grav-mobile SP guns! (At least, that’s what I deduce from looking closely at the one panel showing them).

Nope, all of the landwehr armor in Shappar Valley were hovercraft. Shazar’s reinforcements were tracked.

-Chris

10

Hovercraft. That makes sense – you never do see them go more than a few feet off the ground. That also makes them being open-topped a little less ugly: Shrapnel’s still gonna kill you, but at least you won’t all fall out when the pilot banks sharply.

11

I statted up two variants of the self-propelled gravitic artillery. The missile variant is intended for fire support; the fusor cannon variant, while potentially very powerful in ground combat, is really best as an anti-spacecraft gun.

I think the best “planetary fortress” would have very few fixed gun emplacements, if any, but a lot of tunnels with concealed entrances and nearby firing positions so that mobile artillery vehicles could do “shoot and scoot” missions against the orbiting Hammer: Observe, Direct Fire, Withdraw, repeat.

I do have one rules question about ammo category tweaks, though: The ammo capacity hierarchy on p. 523 goes (lowest to highest) single shot, cylinder, capacitator, magazine, case; but the point costs on p. 382 don’t increase in the same order: “Ammo capacity tweaks: Single shot, 1 pt. Cylinder, 2 pts. Magazine, 3 pts. Capacitor, 4 pts. Case, 5 pts.” So which is better, capacitor or magazine? And which costs what?

Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Missile
Type: Atmospheric Vehicle (Pilot)
Tech Index: Low index and higher
Capacity: 3 crew (pilot, gunner, electronics specialist)
Tech Resources: Ob 17
Profile: 2
Integrity: 7
Control: +1 Ob
Signals: Automation 3
Sensors: Automation 3
Ordnance: Artillery (modified Missile, see below); Squad Support-scale secondary weapons only
Vehicular Speed: Atmospheric 5
Security: none
Structural Tolerances: Surface, H8. Breach, V1. Damaged, V7. Destroyed, V14.

Main armament:
Electromagnetic Launch Assisted Missile (ELAM)
IMS/DoF: S4 damage - roll of 1-3; S7 damage - roll of 4-5; S10 damage, roll of 6 only
[Magazine?]
Mounted, Intelligent, Megablast, Indirect

SPA(G)-M Traits:

Self-Propelled Artillery:
+1 Integrity, bought as +1 Forte (+6 pts)
Remove both Vehicular ordnance mounts (-4 points)
add one Artillery ordnance mount (+3 points)
add Categorical Limitation (-1 pts): no vehicular-scale secondary weapon (exception to rule on pg. 550)

Flies like a cow:
+1 Ob to Control (-2 pts)
-1 to Speed (-2 pts)
These penalties are already included in the stats above

Electromagnetic Launch Assisted Missile:
The Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Missile sled is designed to provide fire support throughout protracted ground battles, not just a single brief barrage. Instead of carrying a few large missiles, the SPA(G)-M uses an electromagnetic launch tube to fire numerous smaller missiles, which only need to carry enough propellant to boost their range and make course corrections. While this technology makes for a much more expensive launcher, it also makes for smaller, cheaper ammunition, a major advantage for sustained fire.

Categorical Limitation (-1 pt): multiple small warheads, -1 to DoF

Increase Ammo Capacity from Single Shot to Cylinder (+2 pts)
Increase Ammo Capacity again, from Cylinder to [?Magazine?] (+3 pts)

Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Fusor
Type: Atmospheric Vehicle (Pilot)
Tech Index: Low index and higher
Capacity: 3 crew (pilot, gunner, electronics specialist)
Tech Resources: Ob 17
Profile: 2
Integrity: 7
Control: +1 Ob
Signals: Automation 3
Sensors: Automation 3
Ordnance: Artillery (Battery, +2D to hit); Squad Support-scale secondary weapons only
Vehicular Speed: Atmospheric 5
Security: none
Structural Tolerances: Surface, H8. Breach, V1. Damaged, V7. Destroyed, V14.

SPA(G)-F traits:

Self-Propelled Artillery:
+1 Integrity, bought as +1 Forte (+6 pts)
Remove both Vehicular ordnance mounts (-4 points)
add one Artillery ordnance mount (+3 points)
add Categorical Limitation (-1 pts): no vehicular-scale secondary weapon (exception to rule on pg. 550)

Flies like a cow:
+1 Ob to Control (-2 pts)
-1 to Speed (-2 pts)
These penalties are already included in the stats above

Skill Advantage: +2D to Artillery Skill (+5 pts)
Hammer gunners must compensate not only for the motion of their targets but for their own ship moving at hundreds of meters per second. A properly equipped ground-based weapon can come to a dead stop and verify its own position to the centimeter against carefully preregistered terrain features, allowing substantially greater accuracy.

Categorical Limitation (-1 pt): Line of sight only
The vehicle’s fusor cannon fires in a direct line to the target, which means it cannot hit targets over the horizon: While missiles can fire long-range from under cover, the SPA(G)-Energy must fly high to get a line of sight. In particular, if the SPA(G)-F is claiming Range Superiority against enemy forces on the ground (not Hammer ships or high-altitude aircraft), it cannot benefit from Cover in any battlefield Position it occupies or from the Take Cover firefight action.

12

I’ve statted up two variants of the self-propelled grav artillery, rather more carefully this time. The missile variant is mainly intended to pound enemy ground troops (yay, megablast with superstructural-scale damage). The fusor cannon variant is potentially devastating as an assault gun, but its prime function is as an anti-spacecraft gun. I think the best “planetary fortress” wouldn’t have any fixed gun emplacements at all, just sensors and a lot of tunnels with concealed entrances and nearby firing positions, so self-propelled artillery pieces could do “shoot and scoot” missions against orbiting Hammer: Observe, Direct Fire, Take Cover, repeat.

But I still have one big rules confusion: the ammo capacity hierarchy on p. 523 goes (lowest to highest) single shot, cylinder, capacitator, magazine, case; but the point costs on p. 382 don’t increase in the same order: “Ammo capacity tweaks: Single shot, 1 pt. Cylinder, 2 pts. Magazine, 3 pts. Capacitor, 4 pts. Case, 5 pts.”
So which is better, capacitor or magazine? Are the point costs wrong, or is the hierarchy wrong?

Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Missile
Type: Atmospheric Vehicle (Pilot)
Tech Index: Low index and higher
Capacity: 3 crew (pilot, gunner, electronics specialist)
Tech Resources: Ob 17
Profile: 2
Integrity: 7
Control: +1 Ob
Signals: Automation 3
Sensors: Automation 3
Ordnance: Artillery (modified Missile, see below); Squad Support-scale secondary weapons only
Vehicular Speed: Atmospheric 5
Security: none
Structural Tolerances: Surface, H8. Breach, V1. Damaged, V7. Destroyed, V14.

Main armament:
Electromagnetic Launch Assisted Missile (ELAM)
IMS/DoF: S4 damage - roll of 1-3; S7 damage - roll of 4-5; S10 damage, roll of 6 only
[Magazine?]
Mounted, Intelligent, Megablast, Indirect

SPA(G)-M Traits:

Self-Propelled Artillery:
+1 Integrity, bought as +1 Forte (+6 pts)
Remove both Vehicular ordnance mounts (-4 points)
add one Artillery ordnance mount (+3 points)
add Categorical Limitation (-1 pts): no vehicular-scale secondary weapon (exception to rule on pg. 550)

Flies like a cow:
+1 Ob to Control (-2 pts)
-1 to Speed (-2 pts)
These penalties are already included in the stats above

Electromagnetic Launch Assisted Missile:
The Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Missile sled is designed to provide fire support throughout protracted ground battles, not just a single brief barrage. Instead of carrying a few large missiles, the SPA(G)-M uses an electromagnetic launch tube to fire numerous smaller missiles, which only need to carry enough propellant to boost their range and make course corrections. While this technology makes for a much more expensive launcher, it also makes for smaller, cheaper ammunition, a major advantage for sustained fire.

Categorical Limitation (-1 pt): multiple small warheads, -1 to DoF

Increase Ammo Capacity from Single Shot to Cylinder (+2 pts)
Increase Ammo Capacity again, from Cylinder to [?Magazine?] (+3 pts)

Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Fusor
Type: Atmospheric Vehicle (Pilot)
Tech Index: Low index and higher
Capacity: 3 crew (pilot, gunner, electronics specialist)
Tech Resources: Ob 17
Profile: 2
Integrity: 7
Control: +1 Ob
Signals: Automation 3
Sensors: Automation 3
Ordnance: Artillery (Battery, +2D to hit); Squad Support-scale secondary weapons only
Vehicular Speed: Atmospheric 5
Security: none
Structural Tolerances: Surface, H8. Breach, V1. Damaged, V7. Destroyed, V14.

SPA(G)-F traits:

Self-Propelled Artillery:
+1 Integrity, bought as +1 Forte (+6 pts)
Remove both Vehicular ordnance mounts (-4 points)
add one Artillery ordnance mount (+3 points)
add Categorical Limitation (-1 pts): no vehicular-scale secondary weapon (exception to rule on pg. 550)

Flies like a cow:
+1 Ob to Control (-2 pts)
-1 to Speed (-2 pts)
These penalties are already included in the stats above

Skill Advantage: +2D to Artillery Skill (+5 pts)
Hammer gunners must compensate not only for the motion of their targets but for their own ship moving at hundreds of meters per second. A properly equipped ground-based weapon can come to a dead stop and verify its own position to the centimeter against carefully preregistered terrain features, allowing substantially greater accuracy.

Categorical Limitation (-1 pt): Line of sight only
The vehicle’s fusor cannon fires in a direct line to the target, which means it cannot hit targets over the horizon: While missiles can fire long-range from under cover, the SPA(G)-Energy must fly high to get a line of sight. In particular, if the SPA(G)-F is claiming Range Superiority against enemy forces on the ground (not Hammer ships or high-altitude aircraft), it cannot benefit from Cover in any battlefield Position it occupies or from the Take Cover firefight action.

13

Now on the wiki:

SPAG-M, Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Missile

SPAG-F, Self-Propelled Artillery (Gravitic) - Fusor

14

I didn’t see these before. I’m not reading the Missile Artillery as something that would be used on ground troops so much as an anti-aircraft battery, to tell the truth. An anti-aircraft battery using nuclear weapons. It’s doing superstructure scale damage, right? Which means it will vape any vehicle with a direct hit, and will kill any infantry in the unit it’s shooting at that’s not in iron, automatically, and will inflict some damage on any almost any vehicles or iron. That sounds like a tactical nuclear weapon to me. Plus, it has the intelligent trait. Nuclear artillery doesn’t need to be smart! Unless it’s shooting at something that is REALLY tough and hard to hit… like Hammer assets, fortresses, formations of anvil sleds with similarly lethal payloads, or Bolo-scale Anvil units. I mean, if one of these things shoots at a formation of these things and hits, the target will be obliterated, and all the others in the formation will be breached at the very least.

Just my 0.02

15

Either could be used on incoming Hammer assets, but I’m thinking mainly of the SPAG-Fusor as being specialized against enemy spacecraft and fortifications, while the SPAG-Missile is specialized for fire missions where you go, “See that enemy infantry battalion spread out and well dug-in over there? No, actually, you don’t.”

16

I might suggest dropping it down to vehicular scale damage then. The Megablast trait does a good job of giving the blanket death and destruction effect, but dealing out vehicular scale damage as SPLASH damage seems perhaps excessive when human scale would do the job just as well. Do you want to be able to obliterate an entire unit of anvil armoured troops with a single fire oportunity? Or would it be more interesting if they had shrapnel spanging off their armour, cutting into vulnerable areas, watching one or two team-mates go down with mortal wounds while others merely get banged up, or miraculously emerge unscathed, while the poor bastard who took the hit can’t be found at all?

If you want this to be a prized asset that can vaporize hundreds of non-iron infantry in a moment, then it’s good. If you want this to be basic field artillery anyone might use, I’d drop it down to vehiclular.

17

The standard Anvil Assault Sled can already carry indirect-fire SCReM missiles doing vehicular-scale damage:That’s your organic artillery support. The SPAG-M is the monster weapon – forget my earlier example about infantry under cover and imagine an approaching mechanized force being blown to smithereens.

18

Ah. So it IS a continental seige unit =) Just a fragile one. Fair enough.

19

Well, yes, I suppose a battery of SPAG-Ms could in fact do awful things to every city on a mid-sized continent over the course of, say, a leisurely afternoon, but let’s not get carried away. (Besides, we need those cities: Reloads are expensive, and you have to get loot/taxes from somewhere!).

Instead, think of the SPAG-M as the Iron Empires (Low Index) evolution of the modern (i.e. Sub Index) US Army MLRS. Consider this passage, most of it extracted from official documents, from John Pike’s extremely useful reference website, GlobalSecurity.org:

The system’s initial trial by combat occurred on the evening of 13 February 1991 somewhere near the Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait tri-border area when the 21st Field Artillery’s Alpha Battery engaged in an artillery raid on targets in southern Iraq. The battery was used as a single firing unit, with all 10 of its MLRS launchers lined up along a 3-kilometer stretch. During the fight, more than 100 rockets were fired on several enemy positions in less than 1 minute.
…
British forces also fired the MLRS in combat for the first time during Operation Desert Storm. According to LTC Peter Williams, Commander of Britain’s 39th Heavy Artillery Regiment in Saudi Arabia, “It’s the decisive battle winner. We call ourselves the Grid Square Removal System because the rockets from each launcher can take out a square kilometer of the map.”
…
Captured Iraqi soldiers referred to the grenades dispersed by the MLRS as “steel rain.”
…
The M26 tactical rocket warhead [fired by MLRS] contains 644 M77 dual purpose improved conventional munition submunitions which can be deployed to cover a 0.23 square km area. The average ground pattern of a 12-round ripple, with some overlapping of warhead patterns, varies from about 120,000 to 200,000 square meters, depending upon the range.

20

I was trying to compare it to an MLRS in my mind, but it didn’t quite work. MLRS aren’t THAT affective against heavy armour, while this thing would rip tank units appart.