Star Wars hack? Where is it?

Mouse Guard Hacks and Expansions
13

I would leave it as you had it, to be honest, with minor alterations. Since weather doesn’t mean anything in Star Wars, it would rock to have Battle Meditation used to power Maneuver and Feint in a Space Combat conflict. It will still be rare, Beer, because not everyone will want to take it (for the same reasons not many people take Weather Watcher). It’s still quite niche, and how fucking cool would it be cool to see someone use Battle Meditation in a Space Combat conflict action (Maneuver or Feint) with others helping with The Force skill?

Although… the name will have to be Battle Meditator, I just realized. MG always throws me with the naming of the skills as roles as opposed to the straight nouns. For instance, I keep wanting to say Fighting instead of Fighter or Scouting instead of Scout.

Also, no need to have Force Sensitivity because all characters will be Force users, right? You could have Strong In the Force as a trait, though, which would follow normal trait level rules.

14

Thanks for the insights into Nature. It’s a complex concept, and a great addition to the BW set, but it definitely is on the foreign side for myself.

How about making it separate, then?

Instead of Nature, call it the Dark Side, with the descriptors Fear, Anger, Hate, Suffering (or whatever). Then, Jedi can tap it to do crazy badwrong stuff…

Hmmm, but the Nature mechanic makes Nature go the other way with Tax…

Maybe the Dark Side can be another Ability, like Will & Health, but also rooted in the conflicts inherent in Nature.

I’d want to draw in the Light versus Dark Side somehow. Nature seems like the closest concept, and ideas are more than welcome.

15

Now you’re talking. I was thinking about something along those lines, too, but thought it might then screw with the Sith. Then I thought “screw them!” – give Sith Nature descriptors that work against the ultimate Sith goal of galaxy-wide conquest! Think of things that force them apart, make them suspicious, etc. An example would be “betraying.” That’s the freakin’ story of the entire Sith Empire: Darth So-And-So had a chance to ---- Oh, he was betrayed. Then Darth What’s-His-Name almost had the entire Sith armada and ---- oh, betrayed! :slight_smile:

My brain just isn’t working so I can’t think of others for Sith. I like Dark Side temptations for Dark Side Nature descriptors for Jedi: hating, coveting, getting revenge (?).

Tax and everything should still work fine. However, there are simply no ways for a Jedi to tap his Nature with Persona to perform actions that are in line with it. In other words, tax will be one-sided: no actions would be in line with a Jedi’s Nature. I actually like that. You want to give in to hate and despair for extra dice in a Fight conflict? Okay. You’ll be taxed. There are no actions that involve the Dark Side that are in line with a Jedi’s nature. You want the advantages of tapping Nature, feel the TAX!

That said, I’m sure some thinking (and tinkering with what exists) will yield a decent and balanced system.

As for the Light side… hmmm… I wouldn’t worry too much about it as a mechanic. Having the Dark Side is enough, I think, and really makes a Jedi character know that he can fall.

16

Yeah, I do like Battle Meditation as a skill. Since the vast majority of non-Jedi (and non-Sith) will probably just be written as “Nature X (attributes)” (like Nerf-Herder, Nature: 3 (Herding, Smelly, Scruffy-looking)), only Jedi and Sith should have practical access to Battle Meditator as a skill.

Going back to prior concepts of the Dark Side/Light Side written by others, do you use a Light vs Dark Side continuum? (Max for Nature is 7, so Dark Side is 7 minus Light Side)

Or do you just tempt with the Dark Side for Jedi?

I want there to be spectacular badwrong potential with the Dark Side. That would be cool.

EDIT: Okay, following the prior post, I think I need to leaf through my book some more and brainstorm some additional ideas about Nature & the Dark Side.

17

In the original movies, Jedi were known as fighters. In the new ones, they are more like monks. A jedi must be patient, but time is running out. They should be peaceful, but the situation forces them to fight. They must be fair, but the villain must be punished. I think there is a lot of room there.

Well, I do not want to contradict myself but … I must do. :stuck_out_tongue:

A Jedi must be patient, but humans -and other creatures- are not. They must be peaceful, but we are violent creatures. We should be fair, but our passions blind us.

In the other hand, Nature for monsters look too great to ignore.

18

If you ask me, the Nature conflict should be about all those bad things a Jedi should never do. Not Dark Side bad stuff, but, you know, all the internal conflicts of the prequels. “A Jedi must not love” and such. So maybe Nature is the Jedi Nature stat, but instead of useful descriptors like “knowledge, defense” have more questionable ones like “calm, passive” and the like. The idea is at 7 Jedi Nature, you retire to the Council and do nothing but meditate fruitlessly, and at 0, you go rogue or Dark Side or whatever.

-B

19

Exactly! That was what I was trying at with my crappy hack.

20

You bring up a good point regarding Jedi. The question for all of us being, “Who are the Jedi?”

Which is the best source, and what is the best way to play it? Warrior-Monks are an ideal, but I am more the fan of the samurai movies & that style of impassioned drama (which is why we need Nature somehow, whatever is going to be the best way to get at it).

Boring monks who are too wise and too rational? Kind of anti-Burning Wheel, IMO. To make the game move, I think we need more “human” Jedi (not Human, the species, but rather more like us, the poor mortals who live & suffer the human condition). Temptations need to be in there. Flaws need to be exposed, brought to light.

The end result is ideally something not as emo as Anakin, not as monk-like as Qui Gon.

…

Okay, I almost had a good idea after reading Odie’s post, but I lost the thread of thought.

I do like the idea of Jedi attributes turned negative in Nature, and pushing the Force into activity leading to tax & passion being equal to heading down the Dark path.

21

I really think that Jedi Nature needs to be divorced from actual skills. Odie has the right of it: let Jedi Nature be more ephemeral and in doing so it becomes something for the Jedi to fight against.

22

I’m saying Jedi Nature is more like the ideal Jedi Nature (as espoused by the Council). The one Jedi are supposed to live up to, the one Yoda was schoolin’ young Skywalker about. “How am I to know the good side from the bad?” “You will know when you are calm, at peace, passive.” But how can you be passive in a fight?

(This works extra well, if you ask me, since “a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” Nature works perfectly in a fight conflict for Defend!)

I think the core conflict is preserved because the Jedi are always doing stuff which requires them to not be passive or at peace. But I’m not an expert MG hacker.

-B

23

I don’t mean to suggest I’m an expert simply by virtue of having written a hack, but I’m certainly familiar with the pitfalls of working one over the coals.

You can’t really argue that a Jedi who is fighting is not being a Jedi. They were “defenders of peace and justice in the galaxy.” I guarantee you (and we all know) that they didn’t do that by meditating in an ivory tower. Remember… Yoda wasn’t talking about Jedi. He was talking about the Force. A Jedi doesn’t crave adventure and excitement… but they don’t run away from it, either. It was their duty to embrace such things and risk danger for the good of the Republic. (There was actually a good season 1 Clone Wars CGI two-parter about pacifism and conflict/war and peace.)

Again, it’s my opinion that there’s not really a good Nature to be found here, except to create something new using the Dark Side temptations idea, which I really like.

24

This may be sound odd, but well. Here we goes.

How about a dual Nature? Dark and Light. If one goes up, the other goes down. With a limit of 0/7, when Light is four, Dark is three, for example, and vice versa.

A jedi can choose which Nature he want to test. Of course, if he test Light against her aspects, then he is risking to loose a bit. (Or maybe a lot.) But, if he prefer to test his dark side, he is gaining a test for advancement for that Nature.

The Light Side aspects can be: patience, peace, meditation, harmony.

The Dark Side can be: fear, angry, hate, cause suffering.

I prefer that way too. I like samurai. :slight_smile:

And, what about spaceships? Perhaps should be treated as characters, with their own stats, or as gear, with bonuses and penalties?

25

Yeah, I was thinking of something similar (a sliding scale) but the issue is that you end up with Vincent Baker’s In A Wicked Age. In other words, everything you do will either be done patiently, peacefully, meditatively, harmoniously, fearfully, angrily, hatefully or … well, suffering doesn’t have an adverb, but yeah. :slight_smile: You’d simply use Nature for all tasks, since one could argue that his character was acting within one of those 8 descriptors (and the player would balance them, so as to keep Nature at, say, 4 perpetually).

26

But balance is what the jedi seeks. Why not? But then you not improve your skills.

27

On the surface of it, I don’t like the sliding scale either.

I think it is a modern view to see things in shades of grey rather than the clarity of black & white. Jedi used to be more black & white, but some want them to be in-between.

Not that there isn’t a time for the Dark path, but I think it should be clear. Choose the Dark path, and Fall from grace.

Thinking about it, I believe there should be no slider IMO. It implies a kind of choice that I think should be outside the scope of a Mouse Guard or Jedi game. If there’s a choice, there needs to be a consequence.

Sliding scales muddy up the concept of consequence.

On the player character side, I’d look at them as gear. Delta-7 Aethersprite interceptors, Venator-class Star Destroyers, Acclamator assault ships… all behave like gear for character-driven conflicts.

On the GM/opposition side, I was considering them like Animals. So, Vulture droids would have a “Nature” rating, with some descriptors. Droid Tri Fighters would have similar approaches. Same with Banking Clan frigates & so on.

Now, Banking Clan frigates and Trade Federation battleships would be further up the scale, as mentioned about Mouse Guard’s Natural Order scale. You’d need a lot of fighters to blow up a Lucrehulk-class battleship.

(To recap, we’d adapt the Natural Order concept for space combat, especially the big Militarist-type battles)

28

Exactly again!!

Those three Jedi tenants are perfect! They could easily be the descriptors for Jedi Nature (replacing the mouse ones). Look at MG: they fight all the time, so do Jedi, but it is against both of their core Natures. Looks like a perfect fit to me!

I’d go so far as to say one could keep using Nature for Defend and such as well as you suggested Odie. Why not?

Honestly, the Mouse Guard seem pretty darn Jedi to me anyway. Just like the Realm Guard do.

29

Precisely! The Mouse Guard are defenders of peace and justice in the Mouse Territories, too – but their job is against mouse Nature. It is not the way of the Jedi to fight. It is the way of the Jedi to live quietly and meditatively. But they can’t, because they have to defend the galaxy. It is not the way of a guardmouse to fight. It is their way to hide, escape, etc. But their duty, their job, is at odds with their nature.

I don’t know nothin’ 'bout no Clone Wars or prequels. The only Jedi I know are Luke Skywalker, Yoda, and Ben Kenobi.

-B

30

Alright, I’m down with that, Brodie and Irminsul. Now comes the bitch-goddess task of deciding upon 4 descriptors.

31

Jedi things, with Nature as a stumbling block. Hmmm. It’s hard to boil down to single words or short descriptors, especially since everything BW is about getting people to act. Writing anti-active Nature descriptors just seems wrong somehow :wink:
Cunctator (i.e. Fabius Maximus… also Cunctator, the delayer… meaning an extreme amount of caution & thought prior to action)?
Some kind of Rinzai Zen non-attachment thingy… but extreme.
Crazy lack of emotions.

Man, that’s tough. Just saying “Non-emotional” or “Delayer” is kind of too tame, I think. Or maybe I’m just fatigued…

Okay… temporarily putting off the discussion on Jedi Nature hacks, getting back to Recruitment & the skill list. d6 Star Wars & d20 Star Wars (looking at the RCR & Saga Editions) are kind of useless to help since the basis for skills & tests is so different in those systems.

Does the hack need a Jurist or Lawyer skill? (Probably fits better in BSG)

Demolitions… should Scout become Guerilla? Saboteur? I hate losing a d20 Star Wars class name, but Guerillas might be cool. Or does blowing up stuff fall under Scoundrel?

Scavenger? Transforming junk into useable tech? Kind of a MacGyver-style production skill?

Has anyone ever gotten to the max number of skills? It’s hard to comb through Star Wars lore in order to come up with other skills to put on the list, especially online. Wow, there’s a lot of bullshit for Star Wars.

32

For skills, write down every single one in MG. Then put a —> beside each and write the name for the Star Wars skill equivalent. Keep it the same if it’s the same. For instance, Harvester might translate directly to Harvester… but it also split out into Jury-Rigger or Scavenger. (I like Scavenger for the overall sense of what it is but kinda like Jury-Rigger due to the Star Warsy feel.) Pathfinder becomes Navigator (space and land). Etc.

The thing is to recognize what the existing skills encompass and not overlap too too much. For instance, Guerilla would fall under Survivalist, I’d say. Remember intent here. For example, you don’t need a Politician skill because a politician’s main weapons are to act as Orators, Deceivers and Persuaders.

You might find you end up with a lot fewer crafting skills but expand into technical ones (like you’ve already indicated). I like the Artisan idea to encompass crafted wares. Boom. Done. For technical skills, let’s really see what’s needed and what comes up in movie canon:

Jury-rigging constantly. Need something like that, but could be under the rubric of Survivalist… maybe? Scavenging for sure, but should be part of Survivalist. You have Engineer. Programmer could work for sure (yeah, I changed my mind), but I’d use it in place of Droidsmith. After all, Loremouse works for various animals – let Programmer work across various machines. … yeah, technical skills will be a bitch. Do those last, after converting all the others so you have a solid base and don’t feel like you’re smashing your head against a wall.

Holy shit. Just had an idea. Instead of Weather Watcher becoming Battle Meditation, what about just Meditation? Imagine other uses besides Maneuver and Feint in Space Combat! You can Meditate in the Players’ Turn to forecast a twist or hazard in the next game! So instead of forecasting the weather, you actually affect something the GM can bring into play.

So if your hazards are: Sith, Space, Denizens and Technology, you could do a Meditation and be told (or to create? Hmmm…) what a hazard or twist in the next game will be and its very general nature. GM: “You see a forest planet… leaves swirling in a firestorm… a dark shape stands still and you hear a single female cry out…” How fucking cool would that be?

Okay, enough of my early morning ramblings.